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Stores

  • 13-02-2024 2:29pm
    #1
    Seadin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭


    Anyone here that buy bullocks at 10-12 mts old and sells them on as stores following year? I have bought cattle this year again mostly Herefords and few AA at that age but I am not choosing to finish them at the winter months like what we have been doing for years. I bought them last year at about €2.75/kg at about 320kgs and felt I didn't make enough money for the effort and time i gave them and money spent on ration to fatten them. They were €2.85/kg this year to buy for similar weight.


    I be interested to see if anyone here buys them in at that age and sells them on a stores following year. This would be a new system for me. I know I wouldn't make money in it obviously but it would cut down costs for ration and silage a bit and be less work required as I work full time 10+ hours a day.


    Interested in what people think or suggest and what to watch out for etc.



Comments

  • #2
    smallbeef
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭smallbeef


    Would you consider buying stores in the middle of the year and killing them in the middle of the following year. You'd get good 400kg stores in July/Aug for 2.30/2.50 a kilo. Finish off grass 12 months later - very little ration.

    For the ones you have bought you could sell them as stores in Feb 2025. Or better if you could get them out on grass and kill in May.

    Feck indoor finishing, no point trying to compete with feedlots.



  • #3
    grass10
    Registered Users Posts: 184 ✭✭grass10


    Lads buy cattle at all different times and sell at all different times of the year everyone has their own reasons for operating different systems but you refer to saving on silage by storing through the winter I am afraid you'll use a lot more silage with this system because if you don't feed ration you have to feed a lot more silage instead

    You also say that you don't expect to make profit by keeping cattle maybe you should reconside your farming operation as you are very busy off farm doing long hours and have another option to just let your land to another farmer



  • #4
    Seadin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭Seadin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121762247#Comment_121762247

    That could be another option. Would it be better to keep animals until October though to make sure the grass was fed before the winter time?


    The ones I got in now I was hoping to keep them until next February and let them off then. I would probably prefer to have my animals got at the start of the year to keep on top of the grass from the summer months onwards instead of trying to source them at that time of the year.



  • #5
    Seadin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭Seadin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121763500#Comment_121763500

    Its just a hobby for me but at the same time don't want to be completely working for nothing like what some farmers I know are doing.

    Il feed ration but at small quantities compared to finishing cattle. Yes you are correct on the silage but I have half the amount of cattle bought this year compared to last year so I won't be using as many bales this year I imagine.



  • #6
    Seadin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭Seadin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121763500#Comment_121763500

    Its just a hobby for me but at the same time don't want to be completely working for nothing like what some farmers I know are doing.

    Il feed ration but at small quantities compared to finishing cattle. Yes you are correct on the silage but I have half the amount of cattle bought this year compared to last year so I won't be using as many bales this year I imagine.



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  • #7
    smallbeef
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭smallbeef


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121763611#Comment_121763611

    See you'd be killing your stock in July/August and buying your replacements at the same time so it would work out the same really grass-wise.



  • #8
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,926 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058335994/stores

    Very hard to make a margin when you pay that for cattle. Buying is a skill in itself. You are paying 900+ for 310kg cattle with mart fees and if you have to pay for transport you are looking at nearly 950 euro.

    Feeding ration is an expensive business, selling as stores is a tough game as well. Since late November my self and the young lad have picked up 50 cattle 15 heifers and 35 mostly runner bulls.

    The heifers are 293kgs average @495 euro. 4 HEX, a Six, a LM, an AAx and an SPx. And 7 Frx's

    The bulls were 191kgs average @295 euro. 18 FR, 2 HE, 5 SIx, 2AAx 2BBx 4LMx 1SPx.

    The last animal was a Fr bullock nearly 400kgs at 640 euro.

    Half of them are now in two months and have really thrived, there is 3-4 of the coloured animals that are a bit small. We will carry most to slaughter during the summer of 2025. However the heavy FR bullock and over half the heifers we hope to slaughter this year.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #9
    Seadin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,716 ✭✭✭Seadin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121769320#Comment_121769320

    You are correct Bass. I have my old fella saying to me that I'm making great prices with last year's cattle compared to when he was doing it himself but he must remember he was doing it when animals were over €200 cheaper and more per animal than what I paid last two years for similar weights and ration prices were cheaper back then than now. Fertilizer prices, silage production, all gone up in costs.

    I enjoy the farming outside my own main job but at the same time don't want to be making a huge loss for the input if you get me.


    I paid €910 this year for my animals at 320kg. Mix of Herefords and AA bullock's I also cut my stock numbers back to half this year. Not sure should I keep the new stock to this time next year, get them out to grass in the springtime and send them to the factory in the summertime or let them off this time next year and let a new buyer finish them. I don't think Il finish cattle in the winter months anymore to be honest.



  • #10
    Albert Johnson
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 1,897 Mod ✭✭✭✭Albert Johnson


    I'd get away from winter finishing regardless of what route you decide to take going forward. It's adding additional expense and workload that you're not being compensated for. Finishing off grass in the summer/autumn would lower both cost and labour input.

    The success of a summer grazing store system is hugely dependent on the initial purchase price and to a lesser degree the amount of weight gain you can achieve before resale. You're purchasing cattle at what's typically the dearest time of year to sell at the cheapest. If you can achieve a good weight gain over the grazing period then they can "grow out" of trouble to a certain extent but if there too dear on day 1 then you're backing a loosing horse 9 times out of 10. In recent year's it's very hard to buy nice quality weanlings/yearlings at anything approaching value in the springtime.

    The cattle Bass mentions buying will do the business in a system that keeps them to finish but there not suited to a store trading setup. If you're buying with the intention of showing them again through the ring then you’ll need to buy a nicer sort of beast and something that will appeal to finishers next time around. When selling stores you need to initially buy something resalable at resonable value and then get them thriving to ensure you've a better class of beast to sell compared to what you purchased. Also you've the risk of Tb and not being able to sell them live back through the mart.

    Seeing as you've experience of finishing stock and appreciate what's involved then I'd be more inclined to change to a summer/autumn finishing period utilising grass as much as possible. Both AAx and HEx would be ideally suited to this system and there easily enough sourced when it comes to replacing them.



  • #11
    massey 265
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭massey 265


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121769449#Comment_121769449

    Id consider that an excellent post and very good advice imo



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  • #12
    HHH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 475 ✭✭HHH


    I tried marting a few forward stores back in November, similar to the system mentioned above. I ended up bringing half of them home. All were well fleshed. Only my top fancy cattle (Lim, Char) were sold and turned great money. Anything middling was a waste of time showing them and they're still in the shed at home. Lesson learned.



  • #13
    grass10
    Registered Users Posts: 184 ✭✭grass10


    Big problem with these light frx type steers is that you can't really offload them as stores and make a profit your forced to keep them to finish stage and if they are on the farm for 18 to 21 months and some don't perform great it could be very painful looking at them



  • #14
    somofagun
    Registered Users Posts: 78 ✭✭somofagun


    The forward store set up is very hard one to make money on and relies on you been good at spotting the right type of weanling. As said before you are better sticking with the lim/char as they will appeal better to the next man but they will cost you.

    As the saying goes "the day you buy is the day you sell"



  • #15
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,926 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Trying to turn cattle short term is a hard ask, it immaterial really whether they are JEx's or fancy CH's. Probably buying handy runners is the best bet but it not guaranteed

    As I have pointed out before there is really only profit for one person in an animal. Every time an animal is traded about 40-50 euro vanishes out of agri income.

    IMO the longer you have an animal the better chance you have of twisting a few bob out of him. Taking cattle to slaughter is the name of the game if at all possible.

    If you can grow grass it's the best option to finish cattle. I never get hooked up on type or weight. I dislike having significant capital tied up.in cattle. I have 49 cattle bought in the last 2ish months for 17.5k. Most will preform a few will not, the obes that will not will be the odd 1 or two out of larger bunches purchased

    If you make decent silage you can over winter cattle cheaply. A two cut system is all that is needed one the end of May and one in late July.

    Try to graze your silage paddocks in the spring. After that put adequate fertlizer on it, especially N and when you cut it try to get it above 40%DM. That and minerals is all cattle should need for the winter. Gauge you stocking rate to how much silage you need. You should only need ration for tge last 6-10 weeks when finishing on grass

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #16
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    @Bass Reeves what age are you finishing them at?

    Do you keep on the stragglers, or what is your approach with them?



  • #17
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,926 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121777198#Comment_121777198

    Most are finished sub 30 months. 20ish in May/June, 20 ish during July/August the rest mainly in September the last few before and after Christmas.

    I have three Friesians that are 3 year olds that got no ration since the day they came in. They will be got out to grass as soon as possible and put on ration in early April with about another 15 stores and slaughtered in May.

    I have two heifers outside all winter the brownish one dose not like concrete she dose the splits. Came in very cheap last July. She came in at 300kgs, I think she is possibly not far off 500kgs now. The red one was bought slightly before her she was about 350kgs, she must be over 550 kgs now. Both are good heifers they were on mainly grass for the winter, they ate about one bale of silage in that time

    20240216_152623.jpg
    20240216_152514.jpg

    There is a couple of small HEx and a Fr bullock out with them that had got limps in the shed. The bullock and one of the HE are OK now. The other one has a drop in her hoof I would think

    Post edited by Bass Reeves on

    Slava Ukrainii



  • #18
    funkey_monkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭funkey_monkey


    Wish I could put some stock out. Walked the field today with view to putting out some slurry, but whilst the top sod is firm below is another story. Will have to spread with umbilical.

    Hopefully will get to weigh them tomorrow to see where they are at. Have a few poor calves that I don't know whether to let risk about the place or cut losses on.



  • #19
    Who2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,087 ✭✭✭Who2


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121777305#Comment_121777305

    You should let the bull to them bass.



  • #20
    Rusheseverywhere
    Registered Users Posts: 318 ✭✭Rusheseverywhere


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121777305#Comment_121777305

    Stop upsetting me with pictures of good dry land!



  • #21
    morphy87
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭morphy87


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121769320#Comment_121769320

    What’s your opinion on buying 320 or 330 kgs end of march and selling mid summer 2025

    I could do with a few more so I’m thinking of buying a few lmx out of dairy cows, hoping to get these around €900 in a months time

    would these be touching 550kgs early next November? They will be grazing all new reseeded ground that was done this Autumn



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  • #22
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,926 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121778895#Comment_121778895

    I saw nice plain LMx bulls out of FR's 220 to 250kgs 8-10 months old sold for 2.2 to 2.4/ kg. I taught they were good value. They were framy cattle and would grade O+/R- when finished next year. Still had bits of horns on them. Running the numbers on them hanging 340kgs DW May/June 12 months @5.3/ kg would be 1800 euro.

    A bale and a half of silage would carry each of them to the end of March. Ya I expect them sort of cattle to put on 250 kgs in a grazing season. 50 more kgs in a shed on silage over the winter, it would be easy to put another 100 kgs on them.

    If I was looking for them sort of cattle I be buying them at the moment

    Slava Ukrainii



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