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Increase in Anti-EV Media Articles

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Nissan Leaf have a SOH indicator on the dash.

    If you are a second hand buyer you'd want to get battery health you can get it from the ODC port. Failing that a range test or even a full charge will tell you if the battery can hold and deliver a charge.

    All Harry said it that it should be easier to access. Which is fair point. Not that it can't be got. Obviously Bjorn does it in his tests. Hes obviously had faulty ones to test, exactly because they are faulty.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,051 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I don't feel all that sorry for customers who can afford to buy new cars if it helps customers who buy used cars who will have access to the info. The dealer will only low ball you if they want you to go away and not buy another car from them.

    Either way, the ship has already sailed and it's being introduced by regulation. If you do keep getting burnt by a particular dealer, take your money somewhere else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 906 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    According to the comments, the manufacturers have no idea what they are doing and hydrogen is the future. Nothing new there then. 😂




  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    i can understand her view that it is an uncertain time for dealers (with EV values taking a hit recently) and that she needs to protect the business. however as more and more EV's hit the second hand market i wouldn't be surprised if ashford motors pivot back to EV's to take advantage of the business.

    as for the comments underneath...haha better left unsaid!

    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    the thing I really cant get my head around is the amount of people who feel the need to comment or tell everyone that electric cars are scrap and wont work and how hard they are. And also all the "I know a guy" stories of people who either returned them or lost money or had warranties voided. The regurgitation of these urban legends then as if it is the truth. I genuinely couldnt give a toss what people drive or how the vehicle they drive functions, but the amount of times I get asked what the range is, or if I am afraid of running out of power or losing money etc etc. Its mental what people believe and take on face value, particularly on social media sites. Its probably not confined to just EVs, and they certainly have a very similar following to a lot of conspiracy/anti vax/"do your resurch" type folks.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Feels very similar to the conspiracy stuff. For sure there's some truths in there, but its drowned in hysteria and hyperbole.

    You know I see the same thing at work. People in meetings pluck bat crazy statistics out of thin air. People seem to assume no one will check anything that is said.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Is that a wind up or a press release?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Promoting how they resolved the issue to the customers satisfaction would be a far better sales tactic than tabloid social media sound bites. Which seems to have just as much negative responses.

    But people are obviously sucked into it without thinking too hard about it. Lack of critical thinking imo.

    You shouldn't lead with defending something, that no one has challenged. It sets a negative tone from the start.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Several things to consider here.

    1) note that she had to go to a Hybrid car for a real life story to back up her EV stance.

    I would like to know what kind of hybrid it was.

    Not only is the traditional "self charging" Toyota Hybrid one of the best modern ICE cars for reliability.

    But from what I can see Toyotas back up service when things go wrong is very good.

    I'm wondering if the Hybrid is actually a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV where Mitsubishi are no longer in Ireland.

    This would be further complicated if the vehicle was actually out of Mitsubishi warranty but sold by the dealer under the dealers own warranty..

    Mitsubishi were quite active in the PHEV game too - they were doing it on Outlanders before lots of the other manufacturers got into PHEVs.

    It seems obvious to me that if it was a manufacturer still actively selling cars in Ireland and the part was still under its relevant warranty from new.


    Then in a "we literally dont make the part anymore" situation. The obvious end game is that the manufacturer would have to find some alternative way to ensure the customer is looked after.

    Anyway the fact she couldn't line up a bad BEV story for her stance is rather telling to me.

    2) let's reflect for a moment her target audience. She does petrol head type cars as a flagship component of her business.

    Her videos will frequently appeal to petrolheads.

    Many of whom will lap up a good negative EV story because many will be sceptical of EVs.

    3) she talks of EV batteries being 20 k to replace. But is imposing a blanket EV ban even on cars that still have battery warranty left.

    She would refuse to sell a 3 year old EV with 30,000 kms even though there's 5 years or 130,000 kms warranty left from the manufacturer on that "20,000 euro warranty".

    4) because of the way anti EV stories spread this is actually good publicity in terms of selling her used ICE cars...

    Even if its just sceptical of EV drivers valuing her "honesty" and deciding she's someone worth buying from.

    If I found the right website for her she actually sells a variety of ICE cars. She had a 1.4 Auris diesel for example.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,821 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    My reading of her comments on the video is that it WASNT one of her cars she sold.

    But it was either another dealers car or it was a story she was told by someone.

    The way it was phrased is very much that another dealer was involved.

    Whether it was a franchised dealer for work that should have been done under the cars original new car warranty if the part was available.

    Or if it was a used car dealer (not Nadia) under that dealers own warranty isn't clear to me.

    Was very much presented as "a story she was told the other day" imo



  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Doesn't matter which dealer.

    Who ever hears the story 3rd or 10th hand won't know which dealer. It just create doubt about used car dealers.

    Same with dieselgate, dsg, dpf, get a reputation and the customers will walk away. Look at the issues with Land/Range Rover in the UK.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,554 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    This is the kind of arguments the EV is coming up against in the press. Some are vehemently anti EV



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,936 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Is anything in the graphic false? I note they haven't mentioned the importance of the source of the electricity and the difference between coal/lignite based and solar



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭Mr Q


    The part about brakes is absolute bullshit anyway. If they're saying they are worse than an ICE car for pollution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭crisco10


    And the potholes point is disingenuous, trucks and buses etc have at least 10x impact and cause the most damage.

    The 50k mile figure is also debated. I've seen studies have it closer to 10k.

    And all these infographics negate the environmental impact of fossil fuel distribution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,009 ✭✭✭Shoog


    It seems to me that the whole hydrogen hype is just another example of ethanol as a petrol alternative, promote a technology which cannot economically work to divert resources away from EVs which do work.

    The whole point of hydrogen and hydrogen promoters is that it doesn't work. I bet if you dig down you will find that the hydrogen boosters are all petro shills.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    She has created an account and was posting on the main motors forum about this "video". Seems after all the talk of not selling electrics and using a hybrid as a reference, She will sell hybrids.

    Also took screen shots from boards and used in a response video.

    All a bit odd but as I pointed out on other thread at the moment she has no stock of electric cars so trying to tell people large combustion engine cars will increase in price is just trying to sell her stock. If some clowns lap that up then fair play to her for catching them in it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 906 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    Her target market is obvious. I suppose there's just no need for these videos. Even with Harry's garage you have to wonder if his reasoning is disingenuous. I know dealers like Nadia are worried about EVs and I get it because they've been selling used ICE cars for years and a time will come when they have to change their business model. If anyone is familiar with Tony Gravelwood on YouTube, he spouts the same stuff. He's terrified of EVs but the market is volatile at the moment and second hand dealers are blaming EVs which I can kind of understand. Being a second hand EV dealer would be challenging in these times.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    The market is volatile because electric cars for years have been massively overpriced so the market needs to fix itself now.

    People paid huge money for new cars which now have seen huge depreciation because a new car had to drop once the market slowed down. Was always going to happen. When you seen people advertising a used Kia Niro at the same price they paid 3 years and 60k km's later you knew something was wrong, plus paying 40+ for a Renault.

    Most people who follow cars knew this was coming. It was unsustainable and Tesla jumped first and the rest saying they wouldn't last year was just noise



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Tesla are in a price war for market share with Chinese manufacturers. That's the only reason they are dropping prices. It's competition that's mostly driving the fall in prices.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    But the prices of electric was far too high, this was seen before with VW when they lobbed off 5k no problem on the eGolf, now with the ID models and 10k, plus all other manufacturers can drop the price in Europe.

    The market has slowed down as well because the people who wanted an electric above everything else now have them, the rest of the buyer will look at all options so they have to be more inline with combustion engines.

    I don't know about the china angle, Tesla and VW I know are mad after that market



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭kanuseeme




  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    I don't see an argument in this graphic against the notion that EVs are quiet, a joy to drive, and you save a fortune in diesel.

    Because thats the real reason actual people drive them, I'd suggest, not environmental virtue-signalling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 906 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    Yes, EV owners know that but try telling everyone else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The manufactures didn't volunteer to drop their prices because they were too high.

    It was because the competition was undercutting them. The competition is China. Any discussion on EVs that doesn't mention that doesn't really understand the market. However this could be a race to the bottom. Established car manufactures have a supply and repair infrastructure. What happens long term with these products when they are not new.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,504 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The reference to tyres and brakes emitting more particulates than burning fuel... that's extremely disingenuous given that

    1. ICE cars produce just as much of those particulates as BEVs do (actually much more brake dust as regen braking doesn't create dust the same way friction braking does)
    2. They are almost certainly measuring the particulates by weight, but its actually the smallest particulates that are most harmful to human health, these are known as pm 2.5 emissions. (emissions smaller than 2.5 microns) Tyre and Brake emissions are considered PM10 emissions, in that they can irritate eyes and cause breathing issues in high concentrations, but they do not penetrate deep into the lungs and cause more long term serious respiratory distress
    3. PM 2.5 emissions are also more persistent in the atmosphere as they can remain suspended for longer, while heavier pm10s are more of an acute problem that more quickly settle on surfaces and get captured as surface pollution, rather than air pollution.

    Also, the reference to deaths from mining cobalt and lithium... they never mention the millions of deaths per year caused by inhaling smoke from petrol and diesel engines, a significantly higher number than the 2k deaths per year they mention from mining accidents. Also, when they're pretending to be outraged over some children working in cobalt mines, the fact that amongst the millions of deaths caused by burning are 230k children under 5 every year slips past their radar....

    The amount of CO2 produced by a typical ICE car driven for 12 months or about 16k kms is about 5 tonnes. This is about the typical amount of CO2 it takes to create the batteries for typical BEV, a single BEV can pay back the CO2 cost of manufacture vs an ICE car in 12 months, or 10k Miles, if all the electricity used to charge the vehicle comes from a renewable source. the sums get much more complex when you add in emissions created when generating the electricity, but it's nowhere near 50k miles to pay off that carbon debt, or you're comparing very different use cases involving long range BEVs that have big batteries, typically, a BEV that has a big battery will be doing big mileage, and so they would actually overtake the equivalent ICE in lifetime emissions car even faster as the majority of emissions in the lifetime of a ICE car come from burning oil to power the vehicle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    BYD are in the market and they are tiny penetration, why would VW drop the price because of Chinese market?

    I personally wouldn't buy a BYD or any of the other chinese companies popping up because I can see them all going bust in a few years and people lft holding the can

    Update, I am talking about Ireland here now WW



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,504 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    My news feeds are absolutely crammed with 'EV is dead, Hydrogen is the answer' articles recently. It's obviously a campaign run by the fossil fuel industry to spread 'FUD' around any potential BEV owner, to get them to delay their purchase or buy another ICE while 'waiting' for the miraculous Hydrogen cars that will never come

    In reality, hydrogen fuel station networks are declining, Hydrogen vehicle sales are falling, the costs of building and maintaining a H2 vehicle are much much higher than BEV or ICE and the fuel costs would be way way higher.

    It's absolutely blatant disinformation by the Fossil fuel industry to suggest that H2 will overtake BEVs for personal transport.



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