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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    *double post



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,942 ✭✭✭✭blanch152



    I have googled it and looked on the Sinn Fein website but cannot find the document entitled "Delivering Sustainable Public Sector Broadcasting and Independent Media Sector." Is it a secret document only available to journalists?

    I am interested in reading it because it all looks a bit strange. For example, the report states that "Sinn Féin also wants to provide €12.5 million each year in additional investment in An Post, as it would lose the 7% commission for administering the licence fee." Why?

    I see two major problems with this.

    (1) Whoever was employed by An Post to collect the TV licence won't be needed any more so Sinn Fein will be giving money to An Post to pay people to sit around doing nothing.

    (2) As the contract to collect was awarded under a tender, such funding will probably be in breach of EU law.

    Some of this might be clarified in the policy document, but it smacks again of Sinn Fein not really having a clue about policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,523 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Indeed.

    Populist nonesense again from SF.

    "RTE are a disgrace, so dont pay your license."

    Small print, we will still charge you for your license through taxation. But please dont look in this direction and then you wont notice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,466 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Like most things with Sinn Fein they don't expect people to read past the fancy headline which says they want it gone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I have googled it and looked on the Sinn Fein website but cannot find the document entitled "Delivering Sustainable Public Sector Broadcasting and Independent Media Sector." Is it a secret document only available to journalists?


    Literally a few seconds on google. Uploaded since yesterday according to the doc's properties.




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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,655 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The free TV license shift from SF is blowing up in their face.

    Just watch Thomas Gould on The Tonight Show making it up on the hoof and making an absolute tit of himself.

    This guy expects to be a minister if SF gets into power. God help us all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,655 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I think that swapping of power is toxic and a negative.

    In a 2 and a half party state, that is what you have.

    Many countries have 2 major parties that 'swap' power. From Australia, to NZ, to Canada just to name a few.

    Its only toxic and negative if you are a member of a party who isnt one of the two. ;)



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,655 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    The fact that on the day that SF announces this fiasco of a policy, you have to drag the topic to FG and the USC and talk about it more than SF.

    Proof positive that the announcement today is going down like a lead balloon. Well done :D



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I'm not au fait with how it worked elsewhere.

    It is my opinion it has been toxic for us. I think a lot of people feel similar. The vote share of these two parties has, after all, fallen from 86% to just over 40% at the last election and may not have finished falling. Not many are being attracted back to vote for either.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,466 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    "toxic" yet Ireland is one of the top countries in World to live in

    Jog on with the nonsense you came up with to push for Sinn Fein, it is boring now and ridiculous

    As I already posted it is also an insult to all the people over the years who have worked to get Ireladn into the position it is now.

    Meanwhile Sinn Fein who you are pushing for, after been created in 1970 are the most toxic thing in Ireland and Northern Ireland, a blight on every community they came into contact with and the drug issues we have in Ireland are hugely responsible for Sinn Fein and PRIA. Even today Sinn Fein are up to their neck in organized crime.

    The old leader hiding paedofiles and the new leader involved with people who water board.

    Now what exactly isn't toxic about Sinn Fein?

    As i said jog on with your nonsense, is repetitive now and you add nothing new to any topic. Just repeat the same noise ad nauseam.

    P.S. Im sure you will report this post to the mods like you do with most posts, this is nothing to do with personal, this is about the constant nonsense you post on this forum. But stil fire ahead and report the post



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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    As I said, I voted for these two parties in the past.

    Toxicity is a graduated measure.

    You seem to have taken it to mean at the higher end of the scale.

    Not what I mean.

    I think the fact that these two parties became the primary choices led to a toxic influence on the body politic and I think 40% of the 86% who used to vote for either feel similar.

    Simple as that.

    SF are as much a political party with feet of clay as FF or FG have but they offer the chance (I think the country now needs in it's political development) to do what Enda promised the electorate in 2011 and horribly reneged on.

    We are already seeing the change a party competing and outdoing the two parties can bring.

    If SF don't deliver some of that change and just become another FF or FG then my vote will go elsewhere.

    Simple as that, no party will ever have either my membership or undying loyalty - no party ever did.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,466 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    That is nonsense, strangely you didn't spend the previous 5 years posting about the last party you claimed to support. Yet you suddenly turned the corner and spent the last 4 years posting constantly about Sinn Fein. It doesn't add up and it's hilarious you even try to push that angle

    Anyway I made my point. The only party that is toxic in Ireland at the moment is Sinn Fein and another 60k posts are not going to change that one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,455 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...this is highly subjective, ireland isnt all that great for younger folks, and we all know this, this means we could become a rapidly aging population very quickly, then we ll know all about it!

    ...change is needed, and very quickly, as the extremes are here now, so if you think things are bad now, just wait a while!



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady



    If you have better reasoning for why two parties had at one time 86% vote share and have lost more than 40% of that in a relatively short time frame, (and nothing suggests to me they are going to stem the flow) maybe you would address that instead of attacking the poster and trying to personalise.

    It is my view that the fall in vote share and consequently in the parties vote will prompt a desire within FF not to go into another FG coalition and to look to re-establishing their identity by coalescing with SF or indeed others if that is doable. For now, based on polling it looks like the choice will be between FG + others or coalition with SF on their own. I think it is that internal 'dilemma' in FF which will potentially solve the dilemma of how to form a government for SF.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,466 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    The majority of young people are staying and working in Ireland, you blow up a situation and feed it to people to bring about fear. The houses that are been built are been bought in the majority by people etc etc. We have jobs for people, they don't have to move to get work.

    We have a housing issue for sure but supply is moving in the right direction.

    Most countries in the World bar a few can say they have "a rapidly aging population"

    Change is happening all the time, crippling the country like Sinn Fein plan to do is not the answer and in reality will be a worse move for young people when they end up back in a situation like my parents and have no option but to move overseas to get work. Never mind talking about buying a house.

    It's exaggerating issues to make out everything is doom and gloom. Fact is it's not. Plenty of people are more than happy with Ireland, as I always say we have issues but so do every country

    People waffle on about moving to Canada, UK, Aus etc....wait till you talk to anyone living in those countries and they tell you about them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,466 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    More choice.

    Better education, communication etc so people are looking at other things in life. Back in 70's did anyone care about the environment? would a Green Party even get a single vote? because of education and communication Ireland is connected to the World so people suddenly are aware of the environment and voting for parties that reflect that

    No idea why this has to be explained to you, it's fairly f**king basic stuff.

    FF have no internal dilemma. It's just more nonsense you made up, Sinn Fein are going to exact way most people predicted, downwards once people started to ask questions abotu their policies which are incoherent and incompetent.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    we have issues but so do every country

    Yes, we do have issues, sizable ones in several instances, and people are looking at ways of solving those issues.

    Nobody is suggesting doing the kind of scaremongering you are engaging in.

    BTW when your parents had to leave the country, who was running it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,466 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Already answered before, as I said I have no interest in the 100 posts a day

    I made my point, the only party which is toxic around here is Sinn Fein

    In terms of Ireland, the moan a minute posters add nothing to the conversation, as you say just scaremongering.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Better education, communication etc so people are looking at other things in life. Back in 70's did anyone care about the environment? would a Green Party even get a single vote? because of education and communication Ireland is connected to the World so people suddenly are aware of the environment and voting for parties that reflect that

    Would you accept that the Greens grew because FF and FG etc did not recognise the importance of environmental issues?

    Seems to me other party's grow because other party's are out of step with what the people want.

    Which is exactly my point about the drop in their vote share, they lost that vote share because they were out of step with what people wanted.

    It is still falling therefore.....

    It is a fallacy also to suggest that there is not issue in FF about party direction. FF members have spoken about it and there is division on coalition (with FG or SF). How much, we simply don't know.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,655 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I'm not au fait with how it worked elsewhere.

    Of course you do.

    It is my opinion it has been toxic for us.

    Can you give me an example on this? What exactly is 'toxic' about it? Give us concreate examples of how and why.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,655 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    If you have better reasoning for why two parties had at one time 86% vote share and have lost more than 40% of that in a relatively short time frame

    I'll give you one.

    We in Ireland are moving to a more traditional European way of voting, where we are becoming much more ideological.

    Because of the nature of the foundation of the state, war of independence, civil war and so on, politics was framed and segmented that way for a few generations.

    Now, especially since the 80's, since we joined the EEC (which SF opposed by the way), our thinking has shifted.

    This is manifesting in the way we vote and how politics is run in this country.

    It has nothing to do with 'toxicity' or any of that rubbish you spout.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Can you give me an example on this? What exactly is 'toxic' about it? Give us concreate examples of how and why.

    That is best evidenced by how they set up SIPO between them - the regulatory body with no teeth or any real power to achieve accountability.

    That was bad enough when they pretended to be different parties and Enda could sell his 'New Politics' snake oil to the electorate but IMO it has gotten markedly worse since they coalesced together, circling wagons to protect and just brazenly ignore issues.

    That culture of no accountability or sanction permeates right down through into state bodies and institutions like the Gardai, RTE and the HSE etc etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,655 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Yes, we do have issues, sizable ones in several instances, and people are looking at ways of solving those issues.

    Can you name a country that doesn't have sizable issues?

    Which country should we follow? Is there a policy platform you would support? Or, are you just mouthing off?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Can you name a country that won't confront it's issues. Which is what we need to do here. Accepting the same again is not what a modern democracy should be doing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,655 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Would you accept that the Greens grew because FF and FG etc did not recognise the importance of environmental issues?\

    What shite is this?

    The Green Movement is a pan-European or even International movement.

    The Green parties everywhere have made inroads into politics and have achieved electoral success. That doesn't mean there is a failure in German, Danish, Swedish, Australian, NZ, or Irish politics...


    Seems to me other party's grow because other party's are out of step with what the people want.

    There is a Green party in NI. They never had a local councillor before 2005, but since then they have many.

    I guess the same accusation can be put at Sinn Fein?

    Also, SF credentials on Green issues can be summarised as 'Climate Deniers'


    But here we are, in a SF thread talking about the Government.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭pureza




    Well to be fair the people voted to make those 2 parties the biggest

    Democracy like...

    Other parties including your own were busy making themselves unelectable So therein lay the source of toxicity if any tbh

    But it's interesting that you've conceded at last that the 2 party state is what people wanted albeit others were busy trying not to be an alternative

    Or in the case of the Lenin appreciation society,un holy,a no no in a deeply Conservative Catholic country

    This is new from you (here)

    I do welcome it



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Of course it can be made of any party that was not giving the electorate what they wanted.

    Again - a truism of politics - parties grow because the electorate want what they are offering or are disillusioned by the incumbents.

    It's not rocket science really



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,655 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    That is best evidenced by how they set up SIPO between them - the regulatory body with no teeth or any real power to achieve accountability.

    That is not an example of toxicity because of the 'powerswap'.

    In fact it's a terrible example given that FG voted against the act in 2001....



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    That is just a rag tag of ideas constructed to have a go at a party you don't like and to deny the fact that the outworking of the two party swapping of power has led to toxic levels of unaccountability.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,655 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    A nice bit of deflection there Francie.

    You didn't answer the question, of course. Seems to be a bad habit of yours.

    So, please answer the questions.


    What issues don't we confront exactly?



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