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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Can I say here; I am not interested in 'other countries'. They are not an excuse.

    Of course, you don't, because then all your nebulous banal points are made redundant.

    Ireland doesn't exist in a vacuum Francie. We are part of the EU, we are part of the global Western order.

    But it seems that you cannot even attempt to answer the question, I asked.

    What you are therefore looking for is Utopia, and complaining endlessly why Ireland isnt it, as you are not interested in the actual data, actual metrics, and actual benchmarks to compare Ireland to other similar western countries in how it performs.


    You just want to make party political broadcasts, day in, day out, week after week.

    At least be honest about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,259 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Of course, you don't, because then all your nebulous banal points are made redundant.

    No, because it is a stock and handy excuse to not confront our own issues.

    A bit like saying, 'I am not going to do anything about my wife beating because the fella next door and the fella that owns the supermarket beat their wives too.'

    BTW, you are making party political broadcasts here on behalf of the status quo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,118 ✭✭✭pureza


    Tbh,they were as friendly as the DUP and Sinn Féin

    I still remember an FF stalwart on SE Radio shouting down an FG supporter with a civil war mantra 'An where were your crowd....I'll tell you where they were...they were hiding under the bed'

    And that's not that long ago

    They're still very angsty with one another on a local level,Sligo Co Council being a good example

    They'd want to end the remnant antagonism before the General election or their goose will be cooked because in the current environment there is plenty of choice



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,259 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Yes, individual rivalry still exists. No biggie there.

    As far as the leaderships were concerned the whole ‘civil war’ stuff was insignificant, a sham fight in other words



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,259 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Not sure the Politics forum is apt for that kind of a trite answer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,111 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The use of phrases like "toxic power swap" and "partitionist" tell a lot more about the poster using them, than the people labelled. Better ignored. Surprised that the phrases haven't been banned as the only purpose of them is to provoke and inflame debate.

    If you want examples of toxicity in politics, look no further than the two main political parties in the North, the DUP and SF, taking it in turns to throw their toys out of the pram and deny the ordinary people a government for years at a time. That is true toxicity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    All sorts of these phrases are fired out to get a reaction, then if you react the report button is used. "orange catholic" was fired out the other day with the poster desperate to get a reaction and when it didn't happen started talking about "taigs"

    Seems odd to me on a politics forum this is what threads get reduced to.

    As I said at the time in this day & age that type of language with "west brit" really should be chucked out with other derogatory terms which are banned. They add zero value and just used to bait



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    This thread is taking on the same form as the older SF thread in CA.

    Debate is about everything but SF, the actual topic of conversation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,259 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Whenever the attacks on the poster and not the post stop maybe somebody will deal with the point made:

    that the 'designed' (my opinion) lack of regulation engenders toxicity in politics and is a part of the reason people are frustrated and disillusioned with politics and power and voted for Enda when he sold the snake oil of 'New Politics' and are now turning elsewhere.

    I mean, if there is no fundamental problems extant in Irish politics why was FG proposing a bogus 'New Politics' in the first place?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,259 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You asked for examples of toxicity, and got one, and my reasons for thinking as I do. You ignored it and decided to go for the personal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,118 ✭✭✭pureza


    I don't agree

    It's just an example of a more professional pragmatic leadership at national level developing

    The Árd'fheiseána this year will tell a tale as to how far this has trickled down

    Up to 2011,it was a fierce rivalry, peaking in the Haughey Fitzgerald era

    There are no alternative facts

    Just facts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Yes, let's continue talking about the 'toxic' power swap of FF and FG in a thread about SF.*


    *Your example was laughable considering FG voted against SIPO



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,259 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    ...and did nothing about introducing proper regulation and oversight. That was 2001 what have they done since?

    *P.S. It was you asked for examples of the toxicity I mentioned in a point I made about SF's dilemma in forming a government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    a) Your example was laughable considering FG voted against SIPO

    b) Even taking you at face value, how is that considered 'toxic'? Western governments the world over face calls for more transparency, more oversight, more regulation and so on. Would you describe them as 'toxic'? Why do you frame it as toxic? And why would having a 3rd wheel in power fix that? Hint: It won't!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,259 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I disagree.

    Because I believe a cosy blind eye has developed between 2 two parties.

    I think that has gotten worse since C&S.

    And I don’t share your pessimism about the future. I think your resignation to ‘that is how it is, it cannot be improved’ is a part of the problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,259 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Because the lack of proper accountability leads to more of the same.

    Because nobody sees any accountability .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Rosahane


    Accountability!

    Remind us of the voting result figures for Michelle O'Neill when she replaced McGuinness as SF leader in NI?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    What accountability have Sinn fein shown?

    They have members who tweet racism and homophobic comments and nothing happens

    They have members shouting "Up da RA' and nothing happens

    The list goes on and on and on and on, right up to the leader , donations from criminals which she lies on TV about.

    You talk about accountability but you don't want any accountability, it's just the latest waffle you think sounds good to complain about the government

    As I said, in terms of toxic. That's all sitting with Sinn Fein, give us a shout when they clean it up and actually manage to have any sort of political record that could be seen as a success.

    I again remind you of DCC and Sinn Fein managing to end up with less units than they started with over a 5 year period during a population growth in Dublin. Total incompetence but also from what I can see a plan by the party to make as many people homeless as possible in Ireland. Absolute toxic from top to bottom.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,123 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    The sheer risibility of a SF supporter calling for accountability where their whole party is led by the army council is delicious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,259 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Every single political party has problems with accountability. SF are no different.

    If SF behave in the same way in government then they do not get a vote.

    If a SF minister is not complaint with regulations like any other Minister should, they have to go. Simple as that.

    If a SF leader or Minister is found to have abused planning law, has financial problems with the tax authorities, then they have to go.

    If A SF leader is proven to have taken donations from someone they know to be a criminal then they have to go.

    I have no idea what you mean by, 'the leader who is getting funding for her house????' but if it means getting funding they are not entitled to, then they have to go.

    Incompetency? If people were ruled out of governance because of incompetency, there simply wouldn't have been a government here for most of the last 100 years.

    Governments have and will do some things incompetently. That is not going to change unless we are extremely lucky.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    "Oh look over there" response which is predictable yet tiresome.

    The last 100 years have got Ireland to the position they are in. You need to stop insulting the people of Ireland, past and present.

    Carry on because you have zero credibility anymore, it's just a lists of excuses and then waffle.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,259 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Sorry, that doesn't wash.

    We have major issues, and people want them addressed.

    If your answer to that is, more or less, 'you never had it so good' don't be surprised if the vote share of FF and FG falls even further and the 100 years of power swapping between FF or FG or a coalition of the two, ends.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    😂

    Honestly that is hilarious you declaring "Sorry, that doesn't wash"

    The irony when you review your posts and the number of excuses you make daily.

    As I said I have no interest in the 100 posts of nonsense, give me a shout when you get some accountability from Sinn Fein



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,123 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I think - judging by recent polls - SF popularity spike may have already peaked. I'm less worried about a risk of switch to an SF led government now than I was before the recent immigration issues and SF's arse splinters from fence sitting.

    The most likely outcome from recent polls looks like a hung dail, unless either SF or FFFG can get enough "others/IND" on board. Whatever it is, it is likely to be less stable than the current regime. I personally hope for FF+FG+Anyone else except GP &SF



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,259 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,123 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    I'm not talking about choice I'm looking at the path to 50%+1 seat, to form a government. The main crux is what is likely to happen after the next GE



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 74,259 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,473 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Politicians have been sent to Jail, they lost jobs, they lost their seats. What type of toxic accountability are you referring to?



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