Stardust - why is it taking so long?

To ensure that nobody accountable is still alive to be actually held accountable, it's just how things are done here.

I'm not sure which question the OP is asking. There's two interpretations I can see anyway.

• Why did it take so long for there to be an inquest?

There were inquests back in 1982, but they came to no verdicts. So the families have been campaigning for proper investigations or a full public enquiry ever since. The powers that be be did everything in those powers of theirs to prevent that and hope that it would go away. The Butterlys did everything they could (and they had connections) to sweep it under the carpet and make out that they were the real victims - remember, they got £581,000 in 1983 (€730,000 in a direct conversion, millions if inflation is factored in) in compensation from Dublin City Council. In contrast Christine Keegan's family, who lost two girls (Mary and Martina), got £15,000 in total. Christine herself passed away in 2020. The families even had to fight the Butterlys to put up a simple memorial plaque at the site.

The families (who are indeed dying off - siblings who were only children when the disaster happened have had to take the mantle of campaigning over from their parents) didn't stop putting on the pressure, and eventually - 42 years later - got new inquests.

Or...

• Why is the inquest taking so long?

Well, it's not just one inquest. It's 48 inquests rolled into one. Details of each and every one of those poor people have to be heard and examined. Then there's all the details technical and forensic stuff, being poured over in minute detail. It's been going on since April 2023, but it doesn't sit every day. For instance, last year, it sat on the following dates:

• 25th April -25th May
•  7th June – 14th July (inclusive)
•  4th September – 15th December (inclusive)

This year, it only started back up again on the 9th of January.

The legal teams, the jury, the witnesses, the experts - even, or rather especially, the families can't be expected to be available all day every day for the extent of an large inquest like this across months, so it has to be broken up and scheduled into parts.

While no-one wants it going on forever, after fighting so hard and for so long to get it in the first place, the families certainly don't want the inquest to be rushed. The want no stone left unturned. So it's going to take time.

As for accountability, unfortunately an inquest is not the place to determine accountability. No-one will be held accountable from this process. Inquests determine how someone died. They're not a trial.

An inquest can return the following verdicts:

• Accidental death
• Misadventure
• Suicide
• Open verdict
• Natural causes
• Unlawful killing
• Narrative Verdict (an explanation of the facts of the mode of death)

Of these, I'm sure the families are hoping for "unlawful killing" - this, in their eyes, would be the nearest thing to establishing accountability.

Eamonn Butterly initiated a judicial review attempting to have the option of Unlawful Killing removed from the inquest jury, however the Hight Court rejected this.

Because Irish society absolutely loves to wallow in the aftermath of a tragedy. There is something deeply engrained in our culture that makes people absolutely relish in a good sob story. Particularly a sob story that involves others and doesn't affect themselves

Omagh bombing

Whiddy Island

Stardust

Catholic Church abuse

Bloody Sunday

These things are all going to keep coming back up until they're erased from living memory, war breaks out or some other bigger tragedies come along to overwrite them

You forgot Sophie Tuscan De Planter in West Cork.

A "trendy tragedy" if ever there was one. It's a darling of the media for sure.

Exactly.

The sexy name, the french connection, the mystery.

All the media pretending to care but all any of them are after is making money from it.

Just read the Butterly family were awarded £580K!!!

Thinking of victims , family and friends today, including those who campaigned and haven’t lived tio be here this afternoon.

It really has been too long.

"The jury has returned a verdict of unlawful killing in each case of the 48 who died in the Stardust tragedy."

Some bit of justice for the families at long last. RIP the 48 innocent victims.

aside from an acknowledgment of the facts… which is indeed welcome…

Justice just looking from the outside in , isn’t acknowledging facts…

Justice is those still alive who were responsible for the deaths, being held to account and receiving punishment… im not an expert on the law but I don’t see mentioned anywhere that might be possible.

So unless families have the energy, heart and wherewithal to go after Eamonn Butterly in a civil case, using evidence from the inquest….?

Maybe some can or will I don’t know but I’d be inclined to think it will end here.

What does this verdict mean now in layman terms. Can somebody be held accountable (if they are still alive)?

Sky News too

https://news.sky.com/story/deaths-of-48-people-in-1981-fire-at-dublins-stardust-nightclub-fire-were-unlawful-killing-jury-rules-13117827

Fair play to all who continued the fight.
They deserve their apology now from the reps of successive governments.
Also whatever compensation is deemed appropriate.

It was a shocking event at the time for anyone in that age range of those who died. The sort of place you could easily have been.

An absolute disgrace that the basic facts were not established back in the initial tribunal, cause of fire and the outrageous practice of locking fire exits.

Also who gets to be held accountable if this couldn't have been officially established from the start?

The relatives deserve a full public apology from the government for the delays in getting justice. 43 years waiting. I was only 10 but I do remember the public shock so well. There was always a north side bias on the attempts for justice.

Thoroughly agree. Another shameful long episode of no redress or justice.

I am sure I am not the only one who shed a tear over this today

I was the same age as those who died, and it always stuck with me , it was so close to home.

Many discos and events we would have frequented at the time would have had exits similarly barred or locked , so this was a disaster waiting to happen.

I remember talking to a fire officer in another jurisdiction about 10 years later and they all knew the exits were locked in the Stardust , and would have been having a lot of difficulty even after that getting owners of clubs and dance halls sanctioned for continuing to lock the doors.

As regards the verdict so much credit to the families and Charlie Bird RIP who kept on at it and kept it in the public eye until they got justice .

Shame so many are not here to see this today .

It is a black hole in the neighbourhood because many felt that Butterfly's literally got away with ……and they only erected a plaque on a back wall a few years ago because of continuing pressure from the Stardust committee .

They built a service station out the front to hide the very recognisable building but never a mention that this was where 48 young people lost their lives until that plaque was forced out of them .

Nothing further will come of this unless the government support it .Inquests cannot apportion blame .

As far as I know the DPP would have to decide whether to take it further .

Butterly will appeal most likely and with their money (580 K in 1983 certainly helped !) and a good legal team will keep it at bay for another decade or so .

But rest assured if this had happened in another more affluent part of the city all those families would have been properly treated and compensated decades ago .

Charlie Haughey , and others do not come out of this well .

Not only did they not support the families they supported Butterly in his claims for compensation .They also refused further enquiries when the dogs on the street knew that the exits were locked and that flammable materials were stored in the building , as well as poor electrics and zero fire training for those working there .

May all those young people who died rest in peace now and hopefully their loved ones can find some comfort in this judgement today .

Yes, it has long been talked about. But responsibility for it denied all the way to the present tribunal by those who might be held accountable. As in https://www.irishtimes.com/crime-law/courts/2023/09/21/former-manager-of-stardust-eamon-butterly-insisted-he-instructed-doormen-not-to-lock-emergency-exits/

The buck has to stop somewhere and in this case the above.

Butterly had strong links to Fianna Fail, and Haughey. It was just buried or made the cause or culpabiility in the deaths go away. They said arson. As a result Butterly got over £500k compensation. Thats shocking when you see todays verdict.

Its a pity Charlie Bird (RIP) is not here to see this day. He would have been so happy. He was very invested in this story and did a lot for the families of the victims and their long campaign

Information was posted above on this too. I had not read the whole thread

Yes it was 'malicious damages' compensation he got from the government which I had never heard of before. Did he not have any insurance whatsoever for the venue 🤔.

Seems like there were problems underwriting it previously...

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/stardust-nightclub-was-pretty-horrendous-fire-risk-inquest-hears-1555073.html

I am not sure it was said elsewhere, but essentially, it was our Hillsborough.

It should never have happened. Butterly was being incredibly narcissistic in petitioning the High Court re the Unlawful Death verdict and apporting blame, something the tribunal cannot do. Self preservation already start and will only increase if it's escalated to criminal investigation.