Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Iran have been funding/supporting Hamas (and other Middle Eastern nutjobs) since forever. They caused this mess, in my opinion. If you are on the Hamas/Palestine side then Iran is on your team whether you like it or not.

Hamas are the elected government of The Gaza. The actions of Oct 7 were well supported in The Gaza to put it mildly. In my opinion Hamas would win an election in The Gaza in the morning. Hamas is Palestine and vice versa.

Obama has no influence on the far right Israeli government ,Biden is very annoyed and frustrated with being ignored by the Israeli government when he has asked for a ceasefire over the last month

Right now there's a bill going thru in America to give billions in military support to Israel and Ukraine

It's simply a fact that Israel relys on American support and weapons to continue the attack on Gaza I think Biden is afraid to withdraw military support for Israel as many older potential voters support Israel

The Idf policy is to bomb any area that might have any Hamas living there regardless of the civilian casualties including women and children . how do you put conditions if you continue to supply a country with bombs and missiles it's a simple fact if the Idf bomb rafah there,ll be a large amount of civilian casualties it's got a high density population who are seeking a safe place to live in buildings that are habitable

At some point the war in Gaza will be over and Israel will be vulnerable to attacks from missiles which will be launched by terrorist groups like Hamas every action has a reaction The extreme war on civilians in Gaza will not be forgotten

See, there's the whatabouttery. 30,000 people have been killed. Something like 100k injured. Millions have been displaced and are slowly starving. But apparently saying that it's a bad thing is horrible unless you also mention the hostages.

Yes, I do hope the hostages are released. But you and I probably care more about them than Bibi does. And definitely more than the Israeli troops who shot three of them,.

But you know what'd be nice. If the people who keep saying whatabout the hostages would for once call for an end to the bombing. No "I want the bombing to end but....." Just an end right now.

Because right now for some reason it's assumed that anyone who wants the bombing to end is anti hostage release. Which really is a leap in imagination. We want to see people stop dying because people dying is bad, and somehow that ends up with we are pro hostage taking.

I want to see the slaughter of innocent palestinians end. And I want to see the hostages released. I'd be happy if either happened with no preconditions. I'd be delighted with both happening.

But in the 31k posts in this thread, can anyone here point out where people have said that Hamas should not release any hostages unless israel gives it all it's demands? because I can see plenty of times where people have said the slaughter of palestinians shouldn't stop until there's a total surrender by hamas.

Ok, so you believe a US soldiers life was worth more than a Japanese woman or child’s life, or male civilian? Do you have a full hierarchical chart of whose lives matter more? I’d love to see it.

I think you're inferring something I absolutely didn't say. I've criticised Israel plenty, per your comment above that would make me pro-Iranian. Which I am not, obviously.

My point is that there are a handful of actors who are beyond the pale. Iran being one. And anyone who expresses support for them is equally beyond the pale.

Sure. Take it up with your TD and MEP.

It won't go anywhere though.

Civilians aren’t part of any gang.

Yes, but we've been there before (not at this scale) and Hamas have always rebuilt.

Easy to criticise the US and UK from where we sit isn’t it. If it wasn’t for their combined efforts we would be living under the Third Reich.

It'll be interesting to see if Israel shills call for the release any of the 3,500 people they have illegally detained without charge or trial.

Not forgetting the Soviets of course, who probably did more than anyone to defeat the Nazis. But we sure can criticise the Russians when they do stuff nowadays. So why not the US/UK when they are out of line?

So what should have happened over 100 years ago, but the British and the French were too busy pushing their own agendas in the Middle East and ignoring the people that actually lived in the region. Let's not forget the Americans carried out an investigation on the future of the region in 1920, surveying the local population. The most popular option among the poulation was a pan-Arab state covering Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Jordan and the rejection of any future Zionist state. But hey, who cares about those Arabs and what they want, the agendas of Western powers take precedence in such matters. Amazing how relatively peaceful the same region was under Ottoman Rule.

Twitter links seem to be broken for me, either adding to the main body or using the Insert Media option. Apologies for the unexpanded links.