Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

It would be nicer if Israel stopped it's genocide

I've given several proposals like: releasing their hostages, ending the apartheid, stop raping kids in lockup, stop treating Palestinians in the occupied territories like prisoners, and you can include not adhering to the commandment in their scripture to "smite amalek" including by name, the slaying of sheep. And don't kill people waving the white flag of surrender. Leveling everything that's taller than a shoebox isn't how you build lasting peace with your permanent neighbors.

You weren't meant to seriously think there was an actual plausible reason why those sheep were slain or why those civilians surrendering were murdered in cold blood. Can you articulate a reasonable suspicion? Because IEDs in the sheep was facetious satire.

None of those proposals require Hamas to do anything different. How do you think. Like, where's "stop launching rockets?" "Turn over the leadership responsible for October 7th" things like that.

Do you think there'll be a Gaza in the morning?

And just a reminder - Netanyahu allowed the funding of Hamas for his political goals.

Oh good point:

Israel should stop bombing children

Israel should turn over its leadership to the Hague.

Ceasefire talks carry on.

Hostage families accuse IDF of sacrificing the lives of their loved ones and go to The Hague

Silence from the US on whether Netanyahu is an honest broker (of course he isn't)

And Deja vu in Lebanon

Haaretz:

The Hostage and Missing Families Forum said they will protest in front of the Defense Ministry HQ in Tel Aviv on Thursday against "the decision to sacrifice the lives of the hostages."

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas called on Hamas to secure a hostage release deal with Israel to spare the Palestinian people further "catastrophe," the official Palestinian new agency WAFA reported.

U.S. National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby declined to answer whether U.S. President Joe Biden believes PM Netanyahu is an honest broker, focusing instead on their their decades-long relationship and ability to speak candidly with one another.

Louis Har and Fernando Merman, the two hostages rescued from Hamas captivity Tuesday, were discharged from Sheba Medical Center at Tel Hashomer. The hospital reported that "signs of captivity are visible on their bodies and emotional state."

A delegation of family members of hostages being held in Gaza is at The Hague to file a complaint at the International Criminal Court against Hamas. "It's time justice is done," they said.

A woman and two children were killed in the strikes on a village in southern Lebanon, two security sources told Reuters, and at least seven other people wounded.

Tell that to the family of the six year old in the car for three hours on the phone to the Red Crescent - living the last three hours of her life in terror. Or to the two medics shredded just as they got to her.

Scrub the family bit - 5 of them were already dead in the car with her whilst she waited for help.

Thats the sad reality of genocide and war crimes - not war.

It'll be ignored but on the off chance it's not no doubt we'll get some casual, glib dismissal of the fact that a small child spent her last moments alive in terror surrounded by her dead family before being killed.

So how are you actually sure it's been proven that Hamas carried out October 7th? Step out of your foxhole.

IDF posts videos of itself comitting war crimes though: 'we just can't be sure, sad'

If that is allowed to happen (Hamas rebuilt) the cycle of violence will continue.

Whilst it's impossible to remove the ideology, the ability to attack Israel must be removed.

This can only end if both the Israelis and Palestinians are assured of security and peace between them.

It will require intermediaries.

Christ is this the level now? What would you call it, a birthday celebration?

Ironically, the term first came into use in relation to Northern Ireland. You possibly weren't aware of that. It arose because when someone from "one side" was taken to task about something that happened, they would respond with "whatabout" something the "other side" had done.

For example, hypothetically if the IRA had just killed 30k+ loyalist women and kids and a spokesperson or connected politician was asked about it, they would invariably respond with "whatabout the loyalists killing all those people in the pub yesterday".

I guess one can always revert to an ad-hoc a-la-carte approach of deciding what is and isn't "connected" depending on what suits their agenda at the time. If you were on "team IRA" you could say they were definitely connected because they were part of the same conflict, whereas if you were on "team UDA" you could say they were separate incidents and it was pure whataboutery.

So you wont admit it was terrorism.

Good to clarify.

You're doing it again. Yes I'm aware of the term in relation to Northern Ireland, and the issues weren't actually connected: one side has a grievance, and the other side has another, unrelated grievance: we can commit crimes because you committed other crimes. That's whataboutery.

In this case though, the issues are directly related. There was no IDF presence in Gaza until Hamas attacked. It's not whataboutery to link Israel's actions in Gaza with Oct 7th. Because the two events are directly linked.

I don't think Israel is lying either when it says it has thousands of Palestinians in lockup, or begrudgingly admitting it has a problem with prisoners being raped in their prisons.