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"average Dublin house prices should fall to ‘the €300,000 mark" according to Many Lou McD.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,529 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...grand so, lets unleash a whole pile of complex social problems including a rise in addiction, mental health problems and of course crime, im sure it ll all be grand in the end.....

    ...cause they are in fact the most common outcomes from uprooting a while pile of people and plonking them somewhere else....

    ...and who will pay for all of these induced issues, oh us the taxpayers of course, shur be grand.....

    ...thank fvck none of you have a say in the potential implementation in any of these ideas lads, some of you would just love to create mayhem!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭Blut2


    We built almost 10,000 social houses a year during the 1970s, when we were one of the poorest countries in Europe with a population not far off half of what it is now. And plenty of other countries in the year 2024 are still building large amounts of social housing. Theres absolutely nothing stopping us from doing the same now other than governmental policy, its not remotely "pie in the sky stuff".

    Nobody in 2024, anywhere in the world, is building anything like Ballymun. Do a little reading on modern social housing projects to educate yourself.

    Whats your alternative, that we just allow HAP to keep growing, at a cost of billions of euros to the state? Further crowding out more and more renters from the private rental market every year, using their own tax euros against them?

    Most people on HAP would prefer to be in a permanent home of their own, not stuck in the private rental market subject to eviction at a landlord's whim. The same as anyone else in the rental market.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,163 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Is your starting point that these locations don't suffer from increased social problems today?



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,529 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    yes some of these areas may already suffer from increased social dysfunctions, such as those mentioned, but uprooting a load of people, and moving them elsewhere, would more than likely lead to a significant increase in these social dysfunctions including increasing crime rates, as social connections are abruptly broken and in cases severed permanently....

    for example, if moving means moving further away from employment, schools and other critical social needs....



  • Registered Users Posts: 25,473 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Mary Lou is one of the greatest advocates of population increases and ‘let everyone in’ carry on… but then when people complain about that she blames the government…. SF and herself talk out of both sides of their mouth, so if you think the housing crisis is bad enough now…. Wait until you see it after a couple of years with her and SF running the show !

    not only will you struggle to attain housing the same will be true, of everything from healthcare to basic administration like getting a passport replacement…. Getting access to a state physio etc… everything….

    if SF are going to build X houses and apartments… where are they to be built ? They say on their website that it will be ‘ public land ‘, but what public land ? They don’t elaborate further which is a little strange. Maybe they can tell us “ hey, we’d take X land in X location, repurpose it for housing “… not very hard ! Maybe the Phoenix Park, Lough Key ? The Burren ?

    the average house prices won’t fall. In Dublin as of CSO figures when I checked recently …. €430,000 was the average house price..

    so with demand for housing and the population spiralling upwards and less places available to build…. ! What is the logical likelihood ? Yes prices continue to spiral upwards… you can’t cap them, not legally….. EU law prohibits it as far as I’m aware.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    As I said many times, the only advantage I see from a Sinn Fein government is they might, not guaranteed, stop blocking houses/apartments like they have been doing for the last years.

    As you say it's all noise from the party, nothing add's up but of course a few people will lap it up because they have the attention span of a goldfish and don't want to know more



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,586 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    The answer is clearly for the councils to start building (and owning) their own homes again, whilst delivering mixed developments. Social housing, cost rental and affordable.

    Social housing and cost rental should not be sold off and kept on the booms of the local council, since they are entirely owned by the tax payer.

    But there seems to be no appetitie for the govt to actually build homes,.

    The govt are, in the main, just the enablers for the private sector to build.

    Will we ever see large scale state delivery of homes again?

    I dont know.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,529 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...again, reelecting ffg, will probably help resolve our most prominent issues!

    ...yes all our political parties are talking sh1te, all of them!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,586 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    SF likley would stop blocking permissions because it would be in their interest to see the housing stock rise, but their attack on investment funds means fewer devrlopments will be constructed in the first place, which means a decline in new homes.

    Approving a new build estate is pointless if there is no money to build it and a SF led govt, through the blocking of financial investment funds, will oversee a reduction in new homes to market, not an increase.

    Its a turkey voting for xmas if people vote SF and want to see more homes being built.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,529 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...as it stands at the moment, its highly unlikely any of our political parties can resolve our housing issues, no one truly knows what to do about it, due to the complexities of the problem, so anything anyone proposes more than likely wont work in particular in the short term, but its been clearly obvious, and for many years now, whatever ffg propose, or even proposed, simply wont work, and in fact, i.e. its been obvious their policies would simply exasperate the problem, and thats exactly what has happened.....



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Not so sure about that, Sinn Fein are incompetent from top to bottom and I could see them still rejecting. After all they have made excuses already that one term won't resolve the housing and they would need two

    They have ran a campaign from what I can see for years to block houses, this included their stint at DCC when they drove the units down instead of up during their reign.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,529 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    true, its a significant supply problem, only problem is, ffg have largely ignored the severity of this supply problem, ignoring what respected commentators have been advocating for, i.e. effectively double the figures of what ffg have been proposing, our governments, past and present, have also largely ignored the resources thats required to achieve these numbers, i.e. training thats required. so we re now left with an extremely serious supply problem, a major deficit in supply, and a major deficit in people able to build whats required, all of which will require years, if not decades to resolve....



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I love the melodrama

    Maybe if parties stopped blocking apartments/houses and delaying projects for years plus driving up the costs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,529 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...theres no melodrama here, this is our now reality, again, we re now experiencing an extremely serious housing deficit, of which was actually foreseen for many years, reported since the height of the last crash, all governments since then have been deeply misinformed of its seriousness, and have been making bad decisions after bad decisions since, so much so, we actually dont know what to do next....

    ...yes the blocking of developments have very badly effected completions, but our problems are in fact far deeper, our state simply doesnt know what to do next, and again, that includes all parties....

    ...this problem will persist into the next decade, by then there will more than likely be significant social and political problems, including the potential of an extreme party, similar to other nations....



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,586 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    It should be noted that there will be 35k homes built this year.

    Thats the entire housing stock of Galway City. So building Galway in 12 months isnt too shabby an output.

    It was broadly the same number last year, too.

    We do need to build quicker, I agree. But if we are building Galway City every 12 months, we aren't doing nothing.

    And what would those numbers drop to under a SF led govt?



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,586 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Because they are anti investment funds (openly) but they fail to see that without investment funds, most residential construction projects aren't viable and simply wont be built.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,969 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Once you start building houses, you reduce HAP levels bit by bit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭Blut2


    35k is not an impressive number, it should not be being applauded.

    Our population increased by by approx 100k last year, and in 2022, and will likely increase by similar this year. That increase requires about 40,000 houses built just to accomodate them. Nevermind replace existing housing units, or make any dent in the housing crisis.

    35k home is far less than we need. The ESRI's most recent estimate is 60k+ a year.

    Twenty years ago, with a much smaller population, we were building 90k a year.

    Its an utter failure of our current government's policies that the housing completion numbers haven't increased faster.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Oh it’s all melodrama, quite amusing to read it to be honest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    If their plan is for councils to build the houses themselves rather than private developers, then there will be an enormous fall-off in efficiency and an enormous increase in delivery time, because the councils simply have no experience in doing this or qualified people to do it.

    Maybe it will pay off after ten or twenty years but in the short to medium term, the numbers will collapse.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,586 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Its not nothing was my point.

    I said we should be delivering more, but some people go on as if there is nothing being built.

    Dublin is swamped with apartment developments at the moment.

    The 90k homes was when we had a much larger construction work force, so we wont hit those numbers, but I think we should be working towards 50k.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    What was the quality of those 90k units? How many of them are riddled with pyrite and mica issues. Quality, not quantity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    We still have estates gettin repairs at the moment with poor quality.

    Plus the price of houses for both would increase because the councils would have to take staff off constuction companies and that would require higher wages....so instead of reducing the price it would increase the overall price per unit



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭Blut2


    Thats not correct. We had the same number of construction workers in 2004 as in 2023. In 2004 we built just under 80,000 housing units. The difference is in what we're using our construction workers for now - a lot more are working on non-residential building. Thats down to bad governmental policy.

    How many of the 600,000+ housing units built in the 2000s have mica and pyrite issues? A fraction. I'm sure a fraction of the houses built in the 2020s will have currently unforeseen quality issues in twenty years too.

    But even allowing for higher building standards having an effect to reduce completions by 10% or 20%, being very generous, would still make no difference - we're only building circa *1/4* of what we were, per capita. Thats an inexcusable amount.

    And obviously wildly unsustainably low given our current population growth rate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 302 ✭✭thereiver


    In the 90s a single person working could buy a house in Dublin

    now for most people it takes 2 salary's the population has increased there's not enough houses or apartments to meet demand Dublin has transformed in the last 20 years since the big tech company's arrived

    There's an option to change old office buildings that are empty to housing

    And it costs 250k plus to build a house

    The cost of building labour materials has increased



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,586 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    So the residential construction workforce, which is all that matters when discussing residential output, is lower now than it was in the 2000s.

    Obviously with the slowdown in commercial construction from this year onwards, we should see more workforce diverted to resi, which is one of the reasons we expect to see an uptick this year.

    Also, the building standards will have changed since 2004 and this of course will have a time impact on completions.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Building standards have massively increased, which is good, a house built in 2004 shouldn't need upgrades only 20 years later yet they are all required to get upgrades in a lot of cases.

    The houses getting built now are at a high rating which will mean in 20 years time they shouldn't require upgrades.

    I rented houses built in that era and it felt like you lived with your neighbour in some of them.



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