Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Given the results of the above and other polling, if an election was held in Palestine (unlikely as that seems), Hamas would win in a landslide.

That is a somewhat uncomfortable truth.

Good, so we are in agreement that Hamas enjoys broad support among Palestinians.

What is interesting is the level of distrust and disdain they have for the PA. That is Arafat's legacy.

I don't think it's any kind of 'gotcha'. I think it's a fact that is worthy of analysis and discussion (although I do appreciate the internet doesn't place great value on either of those!).

The IDF damage Israel too, as the court of international opinion is showing that Israel is very reputationally damaged by the current actions of the IDF.

There's Security (big) and security (small) though.

Big Security = 'no one will start a full-on war with us' and actually on that measure, Israel is probably more secure now than at any point in its history. It would be even more secure if it could defang Iran, who is its major strategic foe. Old adversaries like the Arab states are no longer a strategic threat.

Small Security = 'our citizens can go about their lives without fearing terrorism' (suicide bombings, stabbings, shootings etc). Up until 07-Oct, Israel probably thought they were more secure on this measure too.

Hamas is somewhere in between the two.

What an callous, if not hateful thing to say.

Do all those children bombed to death have a religious belief system I wonder or a concept of the afterlife.

Yes. They have been secure for a long time in terms of conventional war. This is the reason the likes of Iran has not gone to war directly with Israel as they know they are on a hiding to nothing. In terms of asymmetrical warfare they may never achieve 100 per cent security from external actors( unless there is a new government in Iran), but they can with Palestinians if a two state solution can be achieved between the PA and a moderate Government in Israel. With Hamas and the current Israeli Government it will never happen-the one thing they share in common is they both don't give a damn about Palestinian civilians.

Right. So any talk of reviving a two-state solution is bordering on delusional really. As neither side wants it.

More shocking* revelations

https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/6153/%E2%80%9CThey-brought-Israeli-civilians-to-watch-our-nude-torture%E2%80%9D:-IDF-torture-of-Palestinian-prisoners-is-turned-into-entertainment-for-Israeli-viewers

"The Israeli army introduced groups of Israeli civilians into detention centres and prisons holding Palestinian prisoners and detainees from the Gaza Strip, permitting the civilians to witness torture crimes against the detainees, with many allowed to film them on their own phones.

Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor received shocking testimonies from recently released Palestinian prisoners and detainees, in which they reported that the Israeli army invited a number of Israeli civilians during their interrogation sessions to witness torture and inhumane treatment, to which they were deliberately subjected in the presence of the civilians."

*actually not that shocking when you think about it.

Israel is vulnerable to attacks by Iran proxy groups which have access to unlimited free missiles and drones drones are cheap and they are getting more dangerous as tech advances

Ukraine is almost out of standard artillery shells so they are making more drones to attacks Russian tanks and ships

Hamas will rebuild and regroup even if it takes years

If Israel wants to wipe out Hamas they would have to kill every male over 16 in Gaza are they ready to do that?

Gen z and eu country's are turning against Israel because of their extreme attacks on civilians

That's not a great result

Even is Hamas is wiped out there will still missile attacks on Israel from other terrorist groups meanwhile Iran is building nuclear weapons

The state of Israel depends on America for military support to exist

This war could leave Israel in a more dangerous situation in the long term with reduced support from Eu country's and American politicans

Commiting genocide against a large civilian population and limiting food and water supplys is not a viable political decision in the long term

Fascinating to see that politicians in the West know full well (privately) that the claims against UNRWA are total BS and have come about because of pressure from the Jewish lobby and Israel's allies in the US.

Hamas might have been using that ambulance so we blew it up when it was on the way to rescue a 6 year old girl

Who we also murdered

It's genocide.

History repeating itself. Lots of posters use the UN 1947 Resolution as a justification for Israel, but how many realise there was huge pressure put on several countries to vote in favour of the resolution. US president Truman, said he had never witnessed anything like the pressure put on the US Government and Senators to approve the resolution. In turn, the US coerced several countries into voting the same with a veiled threat to withhold aid, including on European countries like France who were recepient of aid post WW2.

Ironically the Soviet Union had their own agenda, by favoring the creation of Israel, they were hoping to drive a wedge between the British and their Arab allies, they also had a belief that Israel might become a Socialist state whom they could sell arms to as the Czechs did. Of course all the Soviet satellite counties voted the same way including Ukraine which despite being part of the USSR had a separate vote.