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VRT relief for EV's imported from Northern Ireland

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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,971 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    It doesn't matter the manual from revenue here is what's important

    The key part being that it's the OMSP that dictates VRT payable, not the actual purchase price. As I did in my post, you can reverse your way through the calculations to figure out that Tesla have told revenue that the OMSP is €46,226

    The OMSP does not include consumer purchase incentives such as the SEAI grant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,575 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    Revenue, taxing you on tax since 1993.



  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭daarmcd



    +1



  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭daarmcd


    Me: Hello Tesla I would like to buy a white model 3 highland that you sell for € 41,832

    Tesla: you have to pay VRT of €1,349 because we tell revenue the car OMSP is €46,226

    Me: You are selling the car for € 41,832

    Post edited by liamog on


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,971 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    As I've explained twice already, they aren't selling the car for €41,832. They are selling a car for higher number, but you are getting an SEAI grant which reduces the price you have to pay to €41,832.

    You as a private customer are paying a subsidised price not the open market price.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭daarmcd


    They are still selling the car for €41,832.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,603 ✭✭✭User1998


    No they aren’t. What is so hard to understand? They are selling the car for €46,000. The Government pays €5,000 and the customer pays the rest.



  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭daarmcd


    Paying VRT is hard to understand. The car shouldn't have any.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,971 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    It's been explained to you how VRT works, that the OMSP is not the same as the price business pay, that the OMSP in not the price a consumer pays after an SEAI grant is applied.

    Which bit are you having trouble understanding?



  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭daarmcd


    Why is the VRT relief 5,000 euro when the max VRT on a BEV qualifying car is 2,800 euro


    Why is the VRT calculated on the OMSP which already has VRT



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,971 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    VRT relief was €5,000 from the pre 2021 system when the lowest rate of VRT was 14%. At the same time as they changed the VRT rate to 7% they introduced the scaling system between 40k and 50k. I suspect it's because the government at the time got away with headlines that they were keeping the €5,000 relief for cars with an OMSP under €40,000 which sounds good.

    The maximum relief under the new system is on a car with an OMSP of €43,859.64 which has VRT bill of €3,070 which is all removed by the VRT relief. They probably didn't want a headline saying they were reducing the VRT relief to €3,070 even though that's effectively what happened.

    As to why is VRT calculated on the OMSP, that's because it's how the government that introduced VRT made it work. The OMSP is the expected price of the pre-tax car, plus VAT, plus VRT. If you want a simple formula to work out the OMSP for a given car you can do

    (preTaxPrice * 1.23)/(1-vrtRate)
    

    For the Model 3 in your example, the pre-tax price and vat are already shown as €42,990. The VRT rate is 7% resulting in

    €42,990/0.93 = €46,225.81
    

    Which is the exact same OMSP that we were able to reverse engineer from the amount of VRT payable (after sliding VRT relief) in my earlier post. Tesla are giving revenue the most direct OMSP they can without applying a fudge factor to account for expected deals.

    Post edited by liamog on


  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭daarmcd


    • Brand new Tesla Model 3 purchase price is €42,990, + Destination & doc fee €980 + Tyre recycling fee €13.78


    so you are saying if the above price including + Destination & doc fee €980 + Tyre recycling fee €13.78 was reduced by €124 euro you would not pay VRT of €1,349 euro

    the VRT bill of €3,070 would be all removed by the VRT relief.



  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭daarmcd


    It still does not change the fact on the new Tesla Model 3,

    That VRT is calculated on the OMSP which already has €575 euro of VRT charged just on the VAT element of approx. €8,224


    OMSP = (Net sale price x VAT x VRT) x VRT again



  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭daarmcd


    • Brand new white Tesla Model 3 black interior has a purchase price is €42,990, + Destination & doc fee €980 + Tyre recycling fee €13.78


    If the above price including + Destination & doc fee €980 + Tyre recycling fee €13.78 was reduced by €124 euro you would not pay VRT of €1,349 euro

    the VRT bill of €3,070 would be all removed by the VRT relief.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,971 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    The pre-tax price would need to drop to €33,162.17 from its current value of €34,951.22 to fully remove the VRT payment. That's about a €1,789 pre tax reduction for Tesla applied before VAT and VRT.

    OMSP doesn't include the extra's such as Tyre recycling fee's and the data + docs.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,971 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I've given you a formula that works, the most basic OMSP is the (NetPrice + VAT) / (1 - vrtRate). If we take away the VRT relief to avoid confusion it might help you.

    netPrice + VAT = €42,990, vrtRate is 7%.

    The resulting OMSP is €46,225.81. 7% of the €46,225.81 is €3,235.81. So, the resulting price of the car is €42,990 plus €3235.81 VRT, which equals €46,225.81.

    If you used your formula you'd end up with an OMSP of €49,219.25. Assuming you mean use a VAT rate of 23% and VRT at 7%.



  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭daarmcd


    You said

    a car with an OMSP of €43,859.64 which has VRT bill of €3,070 which is all removed by the VRT relief.


    I replied

    • Brand new white Tesla Model 3 black interior has a purchase price is €42,990, + Destination & doc fee €980 + Tyre recycling fee €13.78


    If the above price including Destination & doc fee €980 and Tyre recycling fee €13.78 was reduced by €124 euro you would not pay the VRT of €1,349 euro

    Post edited by liamog on


  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭daarmcd


    You state

    The resulting OMSP is €46,225.81. 7% of the €46,225.81 is €3,235.81. So, the resulting price of the car is €42,990 plus €3235.81 VRT, which equals €46,225.81.

    So the OMSP has vat of €8,224 on it and then has VRT of €3,235.81 on the VAT inclusive amount.

    Then if it was an import we would pay VRT on the OMSP which already has the net price x VAT x VRT. Tax on a tax on another tax.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,971 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    It's a common complaint about VRT, you are indeed paying a tax that includes its own value in the calculation. It would be much simpler if it was a simple percentage of the purchase price, but I suspect that structure would have looked too much like an import duty.

    The history of VRT is that it was introduced to replace import duties on cars that were imported from other EU countries (banned under single market rules). I'm not trying to justify the tax, I only want to help you understand how it's applied.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,971 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Tesla would need to advertise the Model 3 with a purchase price of €40,789.46 for it to have an OMSP of €43,859.64.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 70 ✭✭Bannerman1969


    Just looking to confirm.


    Looking to buy an EV up North from Main dealer. Car was first registered in N.I and has always been in N.I and has N.I plates.

    I know there is no VRT but will there be VAT applicable. Car is a 2021 Leaf.


    Is all I pay - the car price converted to Euro ?

    Thanks



  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭daarmcd


    There should be no VAT or customs



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,682 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    If the car has more than 6000kms on its odometer, which presumably a 2021 vehicle has.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13 robertc4022


    hi just after buying ev from nothern ireland .could please help with what documents i need,have revenue letters i printed from revenue site .but nct site said need original will what i have be ok

    thanks



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭witnessmenow


    If I remember I had/needed the following:

    • filled in VRTVPD2 (link in the email)
    • PPS number, I printed something from the revenue website and it was fine
    • Proof of address (was an original something)
    • Invoice of the car
    • Able to find the vin number on the car

    Think that was all I needed



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,603 ✭✭✭User1998


    You are sent a checklist via email when you book the appointment.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,335 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo




  • Registered Users Posts: 5 marwo


    Hi there, i am through same process and preparing. Did your V5c had full 2 pages? On mine 1st page is untouched but 2nd page missing upper part- sections 3-5. Thought its standard as dealer in NI had to send it somewhere but now wonder. Finding different contradicting opinions some saying need full 2 pages other that sections 3-5 related to export to other country are not needed.

    Its EV first and only time registered in NI.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,150 ✭✭✭witnessmenow


    I am not sure what you need from it exactly, but I was given the entire second page back from the VRT place so I'm guessing it wasn't needed?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,603 ✭✭✭User1998


    You only need the first page and you don’t need to do anything with the second page



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