Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

"But if they don't go, where are they?" "very much at risk of exploration by unscrupulous employers"

Who knows, that's the whole reason to enforce the border much better which most balanced people are asking for.

"Being illegal in Ireland is not a good situation to be in. No state supports and very much at risk of exploration by unscrupulous employers. No health care. It's not like the USA where you can basically live a normal life. They are not entitled to anything."

That's the whole reason of been illegal, we've housed, feed and supported you and studied your claim and this has failed under any refugee criteria. They are asked to leave but we're sending out letters this is why some countries have asylum centers to know where people are and fast track their claim and or deport via cater flights or granted asylum.

Some (if not most) people that are asked to self-deport via a letter will not want to, that's very much what's happening too.

"I think it's more of a worry for them and their life then it is for us really."

People who are asked to leave can simply leave. We can no longer be soft as we're currently are, especially when the German finance minster warned us about (welfare immigration) our border. We are spending billions and will be searching for more billions from the coffers in the coming future it's not sustainable. This is the whole points and argument I've been making. No problem with immigration once it's properly controlled and the system is function correctly hence doesn't have anyone been exploited and or roaming the streets and keeps us from spending huge amount of resources too.

This is a very interesting moment in Irish politics.

At the time of the last general election there were already huge frustrations about the housing crisis and terrible health services. That was seen with the rise of SF.

Four years on people are angrier than ever but it has crystallised around immigration, particularly those seeking refugee status.

The anger is understandable, but I think it’s missing the point. A bigger issue is that there has been far too much legal migration over 20 years and services are swamped.

I think it’s an EU wide issue and a class issue also. When the Brits left, largely due to immigration, it should have been a warning that was taken seriously, but the whole EU project is run by people who have a certain ideology around immigration, and they are so aloof they won’t countenance any adjustment. Even with the rise of the right in Italy, France and Holland there haven’t been EU changes on immigration.

Of course it is also a class issue. More comfortable people with their own homes and in white collar work are less likely to even realise there is an issue than younger people and those in unskilled or precarious work.

My view is that political change is a certainty, it’s already happened in Britain and Italy. There’s more to come and it’ll be here sooner or later. FF and FG have spent too long defending the indefensible particularly on health and housing, issues linked to immigration. You are more likely to hear them congratulating themselves on policy rather than acknowledging the crises.

Illegal immigrants don't cost us billions though. Look I agree, if someone hasn't met the criteria to stay, then they should go. That itself throws up many many problems, where do they get sent if their home country refuses to take them etc

But being illegal immigrant in Ireland is far more of a problem for them, then society

"But being illegal immigrant in Ireland is far more of a problem for them, then society"

If you're not a AS/IP or here on a Visa then why are these people staying here, this is a problem because its neither enforced properly.

Also, self-deportation will never work, it's the most softest naive touches. It's a problem when people aren't here legally, it's their responsibility too.

"Illegal immigrants don't cost us billions though" When people arrive here, they maybe staying here for months or if not years for an IPA process even staying in IP centers when asked to self-deport as the Newstalk article pointed out. Hence, they are the 60% of failed IPAs arriving here are still in our care and or possibly working under the book.

It's costing us billions to house accepted and or due processed possible IPA's. There's plenty of articles online mentioning the eyewatering figures we're spending on immigration.

Also on tourism, https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/1117/1336713-use-of-tourist-beds-for-refugees-could-cost-sector-1bn/

"An "over-reliance" by the Government on the use of tourist accommodation to house refugees and asylum seekers could cost the tourism industry up to €1 billion in earnings if it continues next year and the numbers being housed reaches 90,000, a new report has found.

The analysis by the Irish Tourism Industry Confederation (ITIC) projects that such an ongoing use of hotels and guesthouses for Government contracts could results in the loss of hundreds of jobs in the broader hospitality and supply sectors.

This, the report claims, could threaten the sustainability of many businesses and seriously damage the country's competitiveness.

ITIC estimates that should the number of Ukrainian refugees reach above 90,000 it could reduce the supply of tourists here by around 30%."

Again, not to repeat myself, I'm not for closing the border or simply have no empathy to help those who are genuinely need help. I just think we're biting off much more than we can chew, many balanced folks feel that we're simply unable to take and continue to take in this amount of people as its unsustainable.

It’s not sustainable to keep using the tourist accommodation for this purpose. It’s not good for the Ukrainians or the people who work in the tourism related businesses that haven’t or won’t continue.

i do believe it was a reasonable choice when war broke out, but two years in there should be a more long term plan in place.

Again there is a class issue here. If IT professionals in Dublin were losing their jobs there would be far more made of it than people washing dishes etc in the west of Ireland.

We already know we have lots of homegrown scumbags, unfortunately there is nothing we can do about that.

Free movement is a trade off for EU membership and the downside of that is pond life like Puska and his family of freeloaders can come here and have the right to do so.

Now there are some things that can be done within the rules of the EU to deal with situations like Puska but there is no chance any Irish Government will act on it.

Now to the other group here from outiside the EU , crime statistics should be zero for these people and anyone found to have broken the law should be sent back to whatever country they came from.

Undocumented immigrants is a big issue imo

in what way? Yes obvious risks for the person themselves, what other issues is there, in your opinion?

But it's not happening people who fail AS/IP are staying here as pointed out from the article "Some IPAS accommodation centre managers have even told me they have residents still living in State provided accommodation who have been issued with deportation letters. 

you, nor anyone can say that it is not happening. You don't know how many self deport. No one does. Some residents in IPA hostels, is not all.

Probably will turn out to be the correct decision.

Gaining votes from SF and will probably gain from Greens etc when those parties slung out next election.

This is silly. Do you know how many NGOs are receiving funding to do the work the government won't do and should do, and NGOs do it for far cheaper. Don't conflate ALL NGOs tigether.

Do you object to De Paul, Irish Hospice Care..?

If you have a problem with an NGO or infer cirruption name them and show why you think so.

Otherwise this is just cowardly attacking NGOs..

(Cue the " you must be working for one" posts!)

"No. I have clearly stated that nobody knows how many self deport, or how many don't."

When people working in IP centers are telling us that self-deportations aren't happening then I'm going to believe that.

Another article - https://www.newstalk.com/news/asylum-seekers-80-of-those-ordered-to-leave-remain-unaccounted-for-1448723

"New Freedom of Information figures released to Newstalk show that 4,631 deportation orders were issued to people whose application for asylum was rejected between 2018 and last year.

The figures show that Gardaí enforced 314 of the orders – which makes up around 7%."

"It would make sense that most do, as the alternative is not attractive."

It would make sense for you but doesn't mean it makes any sense for people not wanting to self deport.

"Self deportations are not at all unique to Ireland, most countries employ the same methods"

It doesn't matter if its not unique to Ireland or not, simple fact it doesn't work here.

L.V said last month ""If they do not leave voluntarily, this is done forcibly", he was caught out with the FOI figures that only 7% of deportations are forcibly.

"The IPA centre workers said some people living there have deportation orders, not all."

Again, suvgirl I'm reading from the article - I've to post the below comment 4 times now, it’s really tiring.

"Some IPAS accommodation centre managers have even told me they have residents still living in State provided accommodation who have been issued with deportation letters. A letter telling someone to self-deport can hardly be called forcibly removing someone, can it?"

I never once said all people living in IPA centers have deportation orders.

"You just assume that most people stay, there's no particular reason to think that. There is no evidence as to how many leave or how many stay."

I don’t just assume, am going by many articles from around the media that explained this is simply not true. Listen if you are going to believe that the majority of failed AS/IPs are self deporting then that's your assumption. I will gladly take the word from IP workers and journalists.

So, you are telling me people from the other side of the world who are desperate to enter the country and claim asylum staying here for some time will leave without a problem at the request of a letter!

"I understand as undocumented persons, they shouldn't be living here, but they're clearly not a big issue. How often do you hear anything about the undocumented living in Ireland?"

It doesn't matter what I hear or not about undocumented living here in Ireland, simple fact is it's illegal and people should be deporting if failed as AS/IP.

This issue has been brought into wetdream realm for left vs right, I've no interest with any of that BS, just that there's a serious issue with the immigration system in this country and its perfectly fine to point that out!!

Maybe more urban appeal alright.

But I don't think you can speak for the entire population west of the Shannon?

Who do you see people voting for there? Surely not FF FG Lab GP??

I agree, and like I said before,I believe the most at risk from undocumented persons are those persons themselves.

I also agree that failed applicants should leave the country. but that seems to be a problem.

I'm not sure I'm following this completely but the 50/60/70s all wouldd have seen similar emigration figures but the rate was steady.

It plummets after the legalisation of birth control. I can't see any other reason for the nosedive.