Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

And why would the country of origin have any interest in paying?

Yes and shops should pay me to buy stuff.

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Thread banned user warned.

We give aid to a lot of these countries. Tell them that this is given on the basis of them taking their dregs back. No returns, no aid. So pay the odd €20k or so and get a few million or lose a few million.

Dont be giving the government any ideas pleas. They have a few billion euros burning a hole in their pocket. And they are dying to save the world. One continent at a time.

The idea of chartered deportation flights to certain designated countries as suggested by McEntee appears a much more sensible option. Flying one person to somewhere in Africa or South America with two Garda officers seems almost way more hassle than it is worth.

Good point.

Maybe just repatriate to the country of last departure point.

Very few direct flights into Ireland from these far flung destinations.

It's a bit like all these protests in support of Gaza. People supporting and advocating for things they have only a superficial understanding of.

As you point out, it's not just Russia and Putin who have no issue with modifying "democracy" to suit their political ends. In the same way, Hamas aren't innocent of murder and destruction either. None of these 4 "sides" are innocent.

I suppose it's an indicator of the low-attention-span, soundbite, Twitter world we live in now which is ironic considering the vast amount of history and information freely available to anyone who cares to look.

Well, to your first point — the current elevated numbers are due to a continental European refugee crisis on a scale not seen since WW2. It's hard to see how we could have managed it perfectly or escaped any shock — I mean — what number would have been acceptable and perfect and presented no downside? Would these threads be placated by the 30,000 that 'zero refugee' Denmark took in? Personally, I see the decades of bad policy and planning on housing — right up to suspending construction during Covid as being the problems. You can't fully legislate or plan well for a Russian invasion of a European nation.

And when the refugee spike here subsides, which it will, the same problems will exist unless the actual housing policy issues are addressed. To the extent that the spike in refugee numbers is causing an upward pressure on rents and house prices — I find it hard to envisage that, without this spike, rents and house prices would plummet.

And furthermore — I do have a fundamental issue even as a starting point when demand is blamed for a lack of supply. Otherwise, how could you also credibly support the idea of Irish emigrants worldwide returning home?

The answer to your first paragraph is simple - only thoes that we could realistically and sustainably manage without impact to services/supports already in place. Maybe that number then was 30,000... maybe it was 3,000... but the bottom line is the numbers we HAVE accepted are completely beyond whatever that number was, and again we ALREADY "do our part" through foreign aid. We are giving away over 2 billion in ODA:

We already do more than enough to support those in need elsewhere. It's easy to dismiss when sums of billions are being thrown around, but 2 billion is a LOT of money to be sending out for a country with our domestic challenges.

I sympathise with Ukraine's situation but I feel no obligation or responsibility for it, not do I feel that their needs should come before our own. The problems between them and Russia are going back a lot longer than 2 years and it won't be solved by Ireland no matter how much money we throw at it, or how many people we take in. That's up to them and the solution will ultimately be a negotiated settlement (whatever that looks like) as neither side is winning the war.

On the housing points, I addressed those earlier - no, it won't solve the issues overnight but it will allow renewed focus on them (possibly also why the current Government are happy to let the focus remain on AS and migrants), and the billions that are being spent supporting refugees can be used to assist with this coupled with the need for competent leadership. As I've said before though, FG in Government are even more destructive long term than FF. They squandered the mandate and opportunity to reform how this country works in 2011, and they (through Noonan and NAMA) have allowed huge amounts of property and debt owed to the taxpayer to be sold off for relative buttons to investment funds who are now renting it back to individuals and the State for ridiculous amounts. We're essentially paying twice in the latter case.

We don't have inifinite resources... spending money on one thing means taking money from something else, or taxing the population more for the shortfall. The current Government is doing all 3 simultaneously yet the people losing out or paying more are seeing no return for it. Worse, they're seeing new arrivals getting things they aren't entitled to, or being excused from requirements they have to comply with (eg: the NCT), but they are also seeing it when they try to make a GP appointment, or increased pressure for school places, etc.

Supporting others should not be at the expense (literal and at societal level) of those who are already here and who have far more entitlement to expect support from their Government. For years/decades we have been told how "X can't be fixed overnight" or "Y isn't possible" - yet that's exactly what's happened in many cases to accomodate complete strangers to our land and not only are we told to accept this, but also that our needs are less important as a consequence - is it any surprise that people are angry and resentful? No it's not exclusively the fault of refugees (unless they are in fact economic migrants trying to bypass those requirements as a lot are), but the Government have allowed them to become the focal point for many of these issues all the same.

Ultimately we have our own problems to solve and that's where our focus needs to be. Maybe when we get our own house in (relative) order can we look at doing "more" than we are already doing (as per my first point), but until then we need to put our needs first.

A threshold of "only those that we could realistically and sustainably manage without impact to services/supports already in place" is pretty idealistic though. 6 million people fleeing a country in Eastern Europe is just not something that is likely to be manageable to that kind of standard.

It's also worth pointing out here, if we are having a migration vs resources weigh-up here, that over 1.5 million Irish-born people are living abroad — a figure whose sudden total return would (applying the same logic you are using) place incredible pressure on existing services and hugely increase housing demand. So we are also using migration as a pressure release valve too, and aren't only being the sufferers of it.

Doing our part with foreign aid is all well and good, but it doesn't make the reality of refugees go away. The big challenge for Europe now is how we address the geopolitical challenge we are presented with — Africa to our immediate south, the unstable Middle East not all that far, and openly hostile Russia / Belarus to our East who understand that they can hurt us with refugee crises. This isn't going to be solved by any Ireland First policy — it will require collaboration to strengthen EU external borders and work with neighbouring origin countries to incentivise them to help us in dealing with this problem.

Gobshytes Gullible Paddys

Why should I? Whats the relevance here beyond you trying to derail?

What I vote for is my business and not for this thread.

A relative of mine visits me regularly and regales me with the latest on geopolitics from many obscure corners of the world....and the solutions to these hotspots ..all courtesy of the experts on RTE/BBC/ etc that seem to mesmerise her. There's an almost violent pushback if I suggest there may be greater complexities at play. When we were kids in the school play yard I remember kids would always shout "It must be true...I saw it on de telly..na na de na na".