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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    Think after this there will be very few traces of legacy Soviet/Russian equipment in Western aligned use.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,795 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    Fantastic.

    So much d**king around with various European countries and lately the US. You can kind of understand the US (forgiven for seeing this as a European affair... S**tstorm Trump creating havoc with internal politics etc. etc.), but Christ, you'd think we'd have learned our lessons in Europe about appeasing maniacs. The Germans sitting on the fence for most of 2022. The drip feeding of deliveries since then.

    Really, Zelensky shouldn't be having to make continental tours with the begging bowl every couple of months. This should all be running fluidly in the background with diplomats instructing governments and legislatures/ executives brought on side. Bar a couple of contrarian nations, the EU are pretty square behind Ukraine in this.

    We should really be seeing the defence sectors in the EU massively revamped as a result of the last few years - no more depending solely on the US/ UK, and no more relying exclusively on external private manufacturing of weapons/ hardware. Maybe Trump was right to spit fire on European nations not pulling their weight with NATO budgeting/ contributions. The EU, as a bloc, should be able to step up much more effectively. Cos lets be honest, if it wasn't for NATO - if it was just a collective European Army, Putin wouldn't be losing a minute's sleep.



  • Registered Users Posts: 757 ✭✭✭I.am.Putins.raging.bile.duct


    Putin will have to resort to necromancy at this rate



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Bill is spot on .. Yes to this me thinks?

    However earlier today on BBC 5 Live Politico's Suzanne Lynch ( https://www.politico.eu/staff/suzanne-lynch/ ) was asked this very question. She said yes all day long EXCEPT there would need to be solid legal platform behind this for other future such events. She said they are working on this



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭zv2


    Russia is sh1tting on its own doorstep in front of the whole world.

    ____________________________________________________

    2 more planes reported being downed.


    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.” — Voltaire



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,166 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    You conveniently forget about Asange and Snowden. Former is rotting in prison and may aswell end up dead and later had to run away so he do not end up the same. Manning too and they all have to suffer because of what they believed.

    We can go back and forth my point still stand, Navalny was a person with troublesome, outright racist past and that is being suppressed only because he tried to stand up to Putin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    For those saying - “Ukraine should make a deal with Russia & end the war.” - 7 counter arguments




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭rogber


    I said it before: it's not enough for the Russians to be cold and ruthless. They have to be sadistic and cruel. It's like Putin not only wants to show he long since stopped caring about outside opinion, but actually revels in the condemnation.

    I think he learned a lot from Assad in those years Russia propped up that regime.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭rogber


    At least Navalny stood up to Putin. The same can't be said for Assange, who cosied up to the Putin regime and took Kremlin funding in return for being a useful idiot



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,982 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    And this after just under 2 year's. Imagine another 2 year's and another 400k working aged Russian men dead.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,945 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    He certainly wasn't as "troublesome" or indeed "racist" as VV Putin, and all the people in charge of Russia who had him jailed and ultimately killed.

    But you never say much about them. Someone dares to criticise Mother Russia...it is always some post with what-a-bout the West, just how awful and hypocritical we and our govt.'s all are.

    Hence if they (Western govt.'s) have been praising Navalny, offering condolences, attacking Russia over his death, you have to pop up and do your best to crap all over it, as above.

    Even having a go about US supplied cluster bombs and legacy they may leave Ukraine earlier today, when you know Russia is mining the hell out of huge areas seeded by artillery I think, spraying cluster bombs all over the shop and likely doesn't know (or care) where the stuff they are launching has ended up. They certainly won't be cleaning their mess up post war.

    I think both of those 2 people are alive, even if the US catches up with them they are not going to be killed slowly or quickly.

    Snowden in particular is, afair basically a US intelligence worker who decided to leak out a load of secrets and then ran away afterwards. He is not an opposition political figure on the run and under persecution for political beliefs, he's not really like Assange either IMO. Manning was more similar (to Snowden). They didn't run away, were jailed, served time and are free now I believe.

    The Russian version of Snowden (or Manning) (doing same thing to FSB or GRU or whatever it is) would have had a good chance of dying in unusual circumstances no matter where he or she ran to in the world after. If he/she didn't run quicky, well they would probably just be dead (summary "justice"), or dying in a nasty prison by now anyway. Likely noone here would know so that's okay I suppose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,574 ✭✭✭jmreire


    I remember in a previous election, there were videos of the monitors in the voting centers stuffing the ballot boxes, which will tell you what elections are like in Putin's world. If People don't vote, or damage the voting sheet, no problem!!! They will have more than enough spares to make up the shortfall. Plus, as they say it's not the nrs that count, its the ones doing the counting! But even if I can't see it, there's something worrying Putin this election. Or maybe the paranoia is starting to kick in??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,132 ✭✭✭✭briany


    It's not really being suppressed. It can be freely said. However, it doesn't have much to do with the current story, which is that Putin is murdering political opponents with little pushback. Some of these people may share many of Putin's standpoints, but just diverge on something he can't tolerate.

    It's a message that should be shared around because it could be the thing that de-stabilises the Putin regime. If not, it can contribute to a wellspring of Russian discontent.

    The comparison with Manning and Snowden doesn't really compute, because they divulged sensitive information. It's hard to think of a country where that doesn't carry at least some amount of legal jeopardy. I will say that Manning stayed and faced the music, whereas Snowden absconded to and has stayed in a certain country that now gives me some cause to doubt his commitment to a free and open society. There is a good argument to say their leaks were justifiable and an argument to say that some of their revelations compromised US security. Navalny, on the other hand, pointed out that Putin was Charles Haughey² in the corruption stakes. There was nothing that compromised Russian security in his findings, although a lot that potentially compromised Putin, and for that he was jailed and most likely murdered.

    We've a bit of a ways to go in the West before repression is as bad as in Russia. We shouldn't let whataboutery distract us from seeing Putin for what he is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,661 ✭✭✭Field east


    The broad West need to do nothing extra/specific in order to respond very effectively to Russia re the ‘ assassination of Navalny . Russians economy can be increasingly damaged - where it hurts - by more sanctions, tightening some loopholes and making the current ones even more effective than they are currently.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,696 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    Russki planes got the Covid vaccine. Simples. --some republican from America.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,341 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    The magnet in them plays havoc with the Russian air force navigation systems.

    Hey it is as plausible as claiming it for Navalny...

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,265 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    I fear the only way this war ends is if Trump get in, war will then be over, if Putin fails to stop, Trump did say he'd arm Ukraine to the teeth, so it's walk out of Ukraine Putin, or I'll drag you out like a bitch.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,982 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    I don't think Ukraine will suffer a total loss. They'll keep falling back while hurting the Russians over a few years at worst until they hit the Dnipro. The Russians would have no chance of crossing so would have to restart a northern offensive.

    Considering how much distance to the Dnipro even without American support I have my doubts would Russia even make it. And thankfully it would be Trump's last term so the next election Ukraine could win back favour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 233 ✭✭IdHidden


    Why kill Navalny now? Olga Chyzh a professor in the Department of Political Science at the University of Toronto thinks she know why.

    "He is clearing the decks. He wishes to commit fully to what he really wants: finally taking Ukraine.

    He is growing impatient of waiting – for western support to dwindle, and for more favourable political forces to take power in Europe and the United States. He needs his hands untied, so he can do what it takes: declare total mobilisation, further ramp up military production, even at the price of an economic contraction and the risk of renewed domestic opposition. When he does so, he doesn’t want charismatic leaders such as Navalny dampening his political support at home, even in a limited way.

    A bold move such as getting rid of a key political opponent might not make sense if Putin simply wanted to continue with business as usual after an election whose outcome is already guaranteed. It makes more sense if Putin is preparing to take a new, more politically fraught course. In that case, he would want to leave nothing to chance. Whatever he has planned, with Navalny dead, even the slim possibility of political resistance within Russia is likely now extinguished.

    This suggests that any potential for change in Russia now hinges on external influences. Ironically, Russia’s greatest hope for a liberal future is Ukraine. For the west, the death of Navalny might be the last wake-up call before it is too late. The time to support Ukraine is running out. Amid debates in US Congress over the latest aid package and the EU’s hesitation in prioritising its own military industrial production, Putin is devising his most ominous scheme yet. The west must brace itself for a post-election Putin, an unrestrained despot determined to achieve his objectives at any cost."



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,265 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,265 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde


    Interesting point in video, that the West recognizing Putin, is what is giving Putin legitimacy amongst the Russian people, and that for years, through many fake elections he has been recognized and allowed to act as President globally by the West.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,132 ✭✭✭✭briany


    If Putin is worried that calling total conscription could make him lose his 25 year stranglehold on power, wouldn't it be pretty much as politically perilous to call it after the election? It doesn't sound like an election issue like taxes, but like something that could upend Russian society.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,049 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    I suppose if for arguments sake he says comes out with 95% votes for him and then he can go around and declare full mobilisation and state 95% of the people are with me and want me to do this. Probably feels at the beginning of his re-election he is at his most powerful and can get away with anything then (he is anyway but I say more so he can then) , also probably shows to the west, hey look I'm here the next 6 years and this is 6 years more that I will continue on in Ukraine. Are you the West when I ramp up everything more to take Ukraine after I win this election willing to go all out for the next 6 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,489 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    If the elections are rigged like we’re told why would he need to wait or why would he be worried he will lose??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,269 ✭✭✭Widdensushi


    It's a tinderpot , remember the march to Moscow,he needs to consolidate his situation or risk a revolt by the people and the army.



This discussion has been closed.
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