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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans in OP**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭bjsc




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab




  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭bjsc


    Not specifically but there was a note from her parents, who had stayed in the cottage not long before, to say the range was playing up. She also contacted a builder whilst she was there about one of the chimneys which wasn't drawing properly. Also she'd only been to Ireland once that year, in April, which was unusual. To me there doesn't seem to be any indication of an ulterior motive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,717 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    It wasn’t to get the heating fixed, that had been fixed and working.



  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭bjsc




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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,157 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    So either that was just a cover story \ justification for why she was coming over?

    She wanted to get away but at Christmas felt she needed some reason to give family, friends.

    Or she wanted to get away \ get to the cottage for reasons unknown.

    Or shows a lack of trust in what she was hearing about the cottage from Josephine Hellen? I'm just mentioning that for consideration, rather than something I am stating as likely.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭easy peasy


    Do we have any more info on drugs in the area or drug smuggling in the area at that time?

    This time period in the 90s is for me heavily linked with the real growth of drugs and organised crime in Ireland. Veronica Guerin is obviously the other famous murder in Ireland in 1996.

    Hearing that Sophie may have been anxious before her trip to Ireland, I just wonder had she come across something.

    From my limited knowledge on this topic, it would seem that the isolated location of the area and the largely empty house would make for a perfect spot for these operators.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    The seeming nature of the killing would suggest drugs alright.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40 irishspiderplant



    The area where Sophie lived is sometimes called Ireland’s cocaine coast. There are so many tiny inlets and landing spots for people to bring in drugs from an offshore ship. These days at those little slips and harbours there are often signs with information about drug smuggling and numbers to call. Around the Mizen Head area a few years ago I met a woman whose husband had been imprisoned for drug smuggling via the slip below their house.

    There have been some high profile cocaine seizures from right on Sophie's doorstep in the last few years. One was worth €750 million, another €440 million.

    One detail that intrigued me was that one of the smugglers was a member of the British police force, a detective.

    This is a quote from the Independent about a Mizen Head drugs bust in 2007:

    "That night, a holiday house on the Mizen Peninsula was broken into. Not only that, but the beds had been slept in by at least two people. Two days later, a car was stolen from an area near Schull. A co-incidence of criminality in the usually peaceful idyll?"

     https://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/a-drugs-haul-a-mystery-break-in-and-a-stolen-car-26303105.html

    Sometimes I wonder if this has anything to do with why Marie Farrell was driving around the Barleycove Beach area in the middle of the night.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40 irishspiderplant


    Drugs would explain a lot about the way in which Sophie was killed. Methodical but absolutely brutal. especially in the context of Veronica Guerin’s murder exactly six months before.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 30,157 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    To me a possibility is that person(s) unknown went there not with murder in mind but some other criminal activity - either drugs, or to issue a 'warning', or perhaps to find these two mysterious French citizens known to Sophie who were "hiding out" in West Cork. Things escalated \ they were surprised or slipped up somehow and the criminal brutality resulted in the murder.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    For the drugs angle

    There would have to be a connection somewhere between Sophie and this drugs trade



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,651 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    Not necessarily.

    Maybe she saw something when she was down looking at the waves, and maybe the criminals noticed that they had been seen. It wouldn't take long to identify her car.

    Or alternatively, maybe they thought the house was empty and tried to break in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭flanna01



    Of all the possible scenario's that could reveal the murderer, I still come back to these curious factors:

    1) The murder was unplanned - It wasn't premeditated. Bashing someones head with a rock & building block isn't the preferred method of an assassin. These were weapons found on location, spur of the moments stuff, first thing that came into sight..

    2) The brutality seen in this killing was off the scale. The assault was prolonged and emotionally charged. This has all the traits of a rage attack, fueled by hate.

    3) The body was left at the gate.. It was going to be found within hours (if not minutes). There was no attempt to hide the body, drag it behind the wall / ditch.. This might have secured more time for the killer to make his escape.

    4) In my opinion, it was a morning murder, I can't prove that, but the known snippets of information in the public domain, lead me to think so:

    • Lights turned off
    • Open bread on top of work top
    • Stomach contents possible cereal food / breakfast
    • No alcohol in the blood
    • Boots on and laced up - Hardly put them on in the dark
    • Guard noted wet blood around the nose upon arrival at the scene
    • The locality! - Somebody knew where the house was.

    5) If this was a random house breaker, an opportunist, why kill the occupant? She may have heard them, disturbed them.. So what? They were looking for empty holiday homes to rob, somebody around, move on to the next one. They don't tend to kill random strangers, and especially in the manner that Sophie was killed.

    6) There was two known people in the vicinity that night - Alfie Lyons & Shirley Foster. Another person made a statement that they were in the area during the time of the killing - Maria Farrell. She also states that another male was in the area with her at the same time, he's identity was never revealed.

    7) Did Maria Farrell see a male on the road that night? That is the question. If she did, then that has to be a person of interest. If not, what pushed her to make the anonymous claims during a massive murder investigation? I get that she will never be trusted again, and has been deemed a liar etc... But was there a man seen walking by the bridge that night?

    8) The expensive bottle of wine found in a field - Still a mystery.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    "She saw something"

    That's exactly what I'm saying. A connection of some sort .

    Seems unlikely that would happen. That particular connection.

    Who knows



  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭easy peasy


    Personally, I just can’t reconcile the murder itself with someone breaking in or arriving up at the house. It’s just too barbaric.

    It’s understandable why the Gardai are trawling through the footage from that festival to see if Bailey spoke to her.

    In my view, the killer had to have a prior relationship of some kind with her. Even with the drugs angle, there had to have been a prior run in. The only other explanation is that the killer was having a psychotic episode or was on some strong drugs.

    The murderer didn’t just kill Sophie, they destroyed her.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,157 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Not sure on this point.

    There's plenty of cases of stranger on stranger murders where the victim was 'destroyed'. Depersonalisation. Hatred of what the victim represents such as a beautiful woman. Maybe that falls under your "psychotic episode" but it is more like an impulse. They may not have even pre-planned it. I've seen reports from US of someone walking home, someone driving along in a pickup truck set on them for no reason with a baseball bat and brutally murdered them. Total overkill of violence. No connection between them.

    Also read of cases of serial killers who would break into houses, and occasionally kill (often rape) if suitable opportunity arose. Otherwise they were just content to rob the house.

    Criminals can "lose the head" and inflict overkill of violence, perhaps on drugs or perhaps the lack of such control of violent impulses pushed them into criminality.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    I'd agree with Bridget that because of the remoteness of the house were not looking at a random stranger murder

    The rage and the fact that she was a beautiful woman alone in a remote location suggests a likely motive as the gardai believe

    There's also other possibilities. Morning murder etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    There are two possibilities. Property being used for storage or dealer nearby and Sophie reporting activity.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    The South West coast of Ireland seems largely unprotected, I think.

    The caretaker was looking after her house in her absence? How often did she look after things? Every week? Every two weeks? And if something odd would have gone on, she would have reported that to Sophie and the police. But nothing of these likes happened.

    I would not be certain about that. Planned or unplanned is not proven. One fact would be that the murderer knew that Sophie was there, at her cottage, - she's never been there at Christmas as well. This was not a normal holiday during holiday season. ( The French are known to be all or mostly all on holiday in August )

    The brutality is odd as well, same as leaving the body in plain sight. What if the killer would have taken the trouble to hide Sophie's body just behind the briars and brambles not visible from the road. It could have taken 12 hours for her body to be discovered. Sophie not returning phone calls, Sophie not returning the rental car, Sophie not arriving in Paris......

    It's possible the killer left in a hurry, left the body where it was, DNA evidence was destroyed by the thaw in the morning, didn't bother hiding the body or knew he had a couple of hours head start until Alfie and Shirley were either awake or leaving their house.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    How is it a fact that the murderer knew Sophie was there ?

    I think we need to keep an eye on "facts" on this thread



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,651 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    Maybe her car was visible from the lane. A clear sign that the house was occupied.

    Although anyone familiar with the house would probably have assumed that Sophie had, as usual, a guest or two with her; apparently she was NOT in the habit of going there alone.

    So, would you murder someone in the open, without knowing if maybe someone could see you from the house?

    May we guess that the killer either KNEW that Sophie was alone; or else, had assumed the house to be empty and was surprised...in the act of...well, what???



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    All good points.

    The car was parked in a way that it could have been seen from afar, except at night, maybe. So anybody would have seen that somebody was in the house from afar, Sophie or a caretaker.



  • Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭flanna01


    Apparently, Sophie always left the curtains open.. I believe it was to see the beam of the Fastnet lighthouse.

    And yes, there was the local knicker sniffer in the vicinity.

    Now, he would have known that Sophie was home alone, and maybe went down for a night time show...?

    Maybe she seen him, threatened to tell his Mother, call the Guards, let the good folk of Schull know all about him...?

    But would that warrant such a reaction from the local deviant?

    We're talking a prolonged bludgeoning here, no half measures, full on psycho mode.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,651 ✭✭✭Day Lewin


    And Peeping Toms don't usually get violent; their delight is in seeing, not doing.

    I know there are exceptions, but the local chap was well-known and I think the Guards eliminated him from the inquiry.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,398 ✭✭✭tinytobe


    We can speculate all we want.

    We all don't know anything.

    There is no evidence for a conviction.

    We just have our own thoughts, gut feelings what may have been more likely or less likely.

    To date there was also no death bed confession.

    The German musician stating that "he did something terrible" before his suicide is not conclusive enough. He could simply have been mad and an expression of madness?

    It's just a riddle with a lot of open ends. And we all love to write or read about a good story. Lot's of phantasies as well, I'd say.



  • Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭flanna01


    Yeah - I believe he was the local village idiot type.



  • Registered Users Posts: 931 ✭✭✭flanna01



    New Poster: bjsh......?

    Jumping Jesus..! Tis herself back again...

    The babe Farrell!

    😂😆😂



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Bjsh's identity has been verified so stop with the silly posts please



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  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭bjsc


    Actually it's BJSC but thanks for defending me. B



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