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Increase in Anti-EV Media Articles

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Dayor Knight


    There no doubt in my mind that the oil companies are sponsoring a lot of this stuff. Massive money involved for them = massive incentive to generate misinformation, and plenty of money to fund it. And of course A.I. now to generate reems of stories of similar ilk, about 'the man that this happened to', or 'the woman who had to give back her EV', etc, etc, etc. All above board of course 🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    People click on it, once they click then writers think they are interested so create more noise....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,009 ✭✭✭Shoog


    I saw a fascinating analysis of Toyotas predicament. Most people don't realize that Toyotas main market is infact China who have recently introduced an all new cars have to be EV mandate. Toyota have no viable EV platform so their China market has crashed to virtually zero and no amount of discounting is helping them sell their bad EV platform into China. This means that Toyota on a global scale is facing bankrupcy with their hybrid market been the only segment bolstering the balance sheet - but that will not last. They are a decade or more behind the rest of the manufacturers and all because they played with the dream of hydrogen.

    There is a very real possibility that Toyota will be no more in the next few years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,554 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    There have been some pushing the Toyota is dead angle online. There's this Australian guy on YouTube "Electric Viking" who has declared Toyota finished despite it having it's best ever year. He thinks Mazda are going to be the first of the established names to fall.

    Toyota though have had their most successful ever year last year iirc, so writing their obituary I think is a bit premature. Electric drivetrains are relatively simple and Toyota has most of this work done from their hybrids already, the only thing they are really missing is battery tech, which most manufacturers have outsourced to battery specialists anyway.

    Toyota are behind but they aren't doomed. VW are in a worse position imo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Have to say if a piece completely ignores the issues with the combustion engine it hard not to jump to that conclusion.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    VW are reacting to Telsa. Tesla are reacting to the chinese. MG is effectively Chinese. Its only a matter of time before other chinese brands catch up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 906 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    In my view, the Fossil Fuel Industry isn’t necessarily underhanded, but rather, it’s the misinformation that often circulates among certain groups. Based on personal observations, it appears that this misinformation is perpetuated by individuals who might not be well-informed or critical thinkers. TikTok indeed plays a role in spreading information, both accurate and misleading. While I hesitate to generalize, it seems that some adults using TikTok may not critically evaluate the content they encounter. There is the “office idiot” who aligns with this misinformation because it suits their narrative. It’s essential to verify information before accepting it as fact. A guy I work with, despite not being the sharpest tool in the shed, believes the TikTok content he shares is genuine news. Unfortunately, misinformation can easily spread through social media platforms. I've noticed sensational stories often omit crucial details. For instance, the claim that Ford is discontinuing EVs in the US or that Tesla has drastically slashed car prices to $15,000 instead of by $15,000. It lacks context and critical analysis. Indeed, we live in a world where fake news proliferates, and platforms like TikTok and Instagram can amplify it. As consumers of information, we must remain vigilant and seek reliable sources.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Lot of hype train in the media and social media.

    You really have to do your own research to get a better idea whats real and whats fake, or hype.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,799 ✭✭✭creedp


    And therein lies the problem. In the past people could reasonably rely on experts to give them an unbiased view on what was best/worst . Nowadays the media/politicians/so called experts have gone to hell and its all about clicks and popularity contests

    And yet people are surprised when the masses haven't a clue what going on in the world. Everyone can't be an expert on everything so increasingly people are going to be less informed or so confused that they'll just follow narrative that suits them best



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,504 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The fossil fuel industry absolutely are underhanded. They have more than half a century of hiring PR agencies to downplay the need to act to address climate change

    They spend millions of euros every year to 'donate' to 'think tanks' that exist only to distort the public discourse, and lobby for inaction on climate change



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,504 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Merchants of Doubt was published 14 years ago. The Fossil fuel Industry's record on obfuscating, distorting, lying and lobbying has not improved, if anything it's gotten even worse


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchants_of_Doubt



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Yes but they had 10k to play with is my point of view

    The grant from Irish government as well was just been used as manufacturer margin



  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭Woodie40




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 906 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    The Chinese cars are better than the German ones and this is coming from someone who has one of each. BYD will not go bust. The only company I worry for is Polestar.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Polestar is already gone with Volvo pulling out, over priced

    You won’t know about the Chinese cars till 5 years +



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 906 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    Polestar, although facing challenges, is not disappearing just yet. Geely, the parent company of both Polestar and Volvo, has restructured some aspects to ensure that Polestar’s losses do not directly impact Volvo. The next year will be crucial for Polestar’s success, especially with the upcoming releases of the Polestar 3 and Polestar 4.

    As for evaluating a car’s success, waiting for 5+ years seems excessive. Notably, BYD cars have already made a significant presence on Irish roads, effectively replacing brands like Kia and Hyundai in the entry level market. It’s intriguing how quickly the automotive landscape can shift!

    Post edited by n.d.os on


  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    the motoring landscape will be unrecognisable in 3 to 5 years. dacia, byd etc. will shake things up with cheap EV's. i wouldn't like to be trying to offload a diesel in 5 years time.

    old school traders in cars not tuned in to what's to come in the second hand market are going to be in trouble, those that are agile and transition will be a success. same goes for mechanics not moving with the times.

    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    Hyundai BEVs outsold BYD nearly 2:1 in January so bot there yet.

    . I'm sure they'll continue to grow as from experience as a buyer Hyundai and Kia weren't overly keen on selling EVs above a bare minimum quantity. If you wanted a Tuscon though ...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,192 ✭✭✭witnessmenow


    While I think its going that direction, I think you way overestimate how set in their ways Irish people are in general. There is at least one TD in the Dail who's main platform when he was first running was burning turf, and there is plenty of rural people who will burn nothing else.

    The majority of people I've told I'm getting an EV think its a bad idea, despite having no experience with them and quoting misinformation about range and battery failure. Doesn't matter if they are wrong, this is general public perception.

    I'm sure a few people will change their minds in the next few years but I don't thing the ICE market will be as apocalyptic as you think



  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    perhaps you're right that i haven't factored in gobshiteness into my assessment however we don't produce cars therefore we're beholden to the international direction of travel re EV's. when car makers move away from ICE in a significant way and governments tax accordingly then lack of choice and financial incentives to stick with ICE will diminish. no tub thumping td will change that.

    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,604 ✭✭✭Oscar_Madison


    I don’t get swayed by dodgy online articles and I approach articles from established media sources with a critical eye, on the topic of EVs.

    Im in the market for a second hand EV- I’m grant approved for the home charger and have about 3 months realistically to buy if I want to avail of this.

    While we need two cars, we don’t need them all of the time - other car is a diesel - My head is probably wrecked at this stage deciding if an EV is the best way forward right now.

    Concerns are mainly around expensive repairs or replacement re battery when out of warranty - I’ll probably have to suck that one up. I know some will say statistically you’ll be fine and I appreciate that. However I know I’ll be stuck with this “second car” for a long time as reselling will be challenging in years to come.


    However I do feel prices are still just crazy in the secondhand market- the EV buying thread is testament to that- no real “bargains” out there- i don’t even care about bargains just asking for a reasonable price at this stage 😀

    I don’t believe EVs are the panacea to all ills- we will definitely see the cost of electricity rise in years to come for a variety of reasons - but we do need that tipping point where the secondhand market bails in and starts buying up the second hand stock -I just don’t think the prices are commensurate with the concerns right now- buyer “faith” is lacking so it’s up to the industry to respond with reassurances such as free battery extended warranties for example- if the statistics are to be believed around only small levels of battery failure, then this should be a no brainer for the manufacturers to underwrite- 10-12 year battery warranty and I guarantee you, you’ll see a massive instant pick up in the second hand market



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Given the rural aspect of much of Ireland, ICE cars won't be dying out any time soon. It's in the cities where EVs will take hold. At least for people with driveways. There's always going to be charging issues for apartment dwellers etc., unless (or until) average battery ranges increase to make charging less an issue.

    For every "expert" you meet telling you your battery is going to explode, there's an owner showing you on an app how little he's paying to run his daily. And if there's one thing the Irish like its getting one over on someone!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭Mr Q


    Why do you think that about rural Ireland? If anything most people in rural Ireland would have somewhere to charge at home making it easier to get an EV.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,290 ✭✭✭MightyMunster


    I agree 100%, the exception would be people living on the main street of towns etc that have the same easily surmount able obstacles as apartment dwellers if there was an appetite to address it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    They do a lot of ad hoc long trips. Running up to Dublin for something. Or back home at the weekend, usually in a rush, and usually with no destination charger. Often non stop. They do it at peak time when the. High speed chargers on route are in peak demand too.

    I think ICE will hang on with at least 50% of the market in Ireland. But it might be a case you'll have to take what's available.

    Struggled to find decent used manual petrol in what I wanted. Everything was diesel and auto. Usually high miles too. I just got rid a diesel auto..



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,043 ✭✭✭Mr Q


    I wouldn't agree with the part about ad hoc trips. Not many people will jump in their car and drive for hours without some planning, no matter what the fuel is. There will always be exceptions but living rurally and having an EV is not an issue for the majority.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,114 ✭✭✭✭josip


    And that's the upside-down bit of it all. EVs are ideally suited to so many rural commutes and a higher percentage of people living in rural areas live in houses and can charge at home. Rural/suburban commuters usually have longer commutes than urban dwellers and replacing these with an EV will benefit climate change more and have a larger reduction in fuel costs for their owners.

    My sister only uses her car for the 25km drive to work/family. The car has probably never done more than 70km in a single day. My brother in-law has a 40km commute to work but has 10 longer trips a year around Ireland. They could get 1 EV to replace my BIL's car for the longer commute and take my sisters car for the around Ireland drives. But although it makes financial sense for them, they're reluctant to change.

    Post edited by josip on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 906 ✭✭✭n.d.os


    Much of this skepticism can be traced back to Elon Musk and a persistent fear of globalism. Ironically, those who fear these changes are often the most influenced by them. Many struggle to accept that Elon produces exceptional cars that differ significantly from the vehicles they grew up with. As technology advances, EVs are sometimes unfairly dismissed as mere novelties, unnecessary in our lives.

    Another point of contention arises from pushback against government policies. While governments do exert influence, most individuals still have the autonomy to make their own decisions regarding EV adoption.

    Returning to the Elon Musk angle, there’s a cohort of middle-aged men who resent the decline of traditional car manufacturers. They grapple with the fact that legacy automakers no longer dominate the market, with an unconventional American tech guru now leading the charge. For some, clinging to their diesel vehicles becomes a symbolic act—a defiant response to the rise of EVs and the perceived Americanisation of the automotive industry.

    The blanket statement that irks me the most is the assertion that “EVs are not the solution.” But what exactly are they not a solution to? It’s curious that hydrogen fuel cells are often touted as an alternative to EVs, even though EVs have yet to make a significant global impact. Why can’t both technologies coexist, much like diesel and petrol do today?

    For years, I’ve hoped for an influential figure to debunk the notion that EVs are inherently flawed. Perhaps a compelling Netflix documentary could provide factual insights, allowing people to form their own opinions rather than relying on the biased views of Jeremy Clarkson, Harry Metcalfe, and Chris Harris. These individuals, die-hard petrolheads from a different era, may not fully appreciate the transformative potential of EVs.

    As an old-timer myself, I understand the importance of technological progress and its positive impact on the world. However, there’s one thing that really gets under my skin: when fellow old-timers use their old cars as a political statement rather than simply enjoying them for what they are and using them to avoid putting another new car on the road. After all, old cars and electric vehicles both serve the same fundamental purpose: getting us from point A to point B.

    Why the fuss? Well, it seems to stem from a clash of ideologies. Some view EVs as the future—a cleaner, more sustainable way to travel—while others cling to the nostalgia of classic automobiles. But in the end, whether you’re cruising in an old BMW or silently gliding in a Tesla, the destination remains the same. So let’s appreciate the journey, regardless of the wheels beneath us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 899 ✭✭✭ColemanY2K


    I live at the foothills of the knockmealdowns, what many would consider the back and beyonds of rural Ireland. We're 10km from the nearest EV charger (the only one within a 25 minute drive) yet an EV would suit me and my neighbours down to the ground. Even a cheap Dacia Spring would do the daily 50-60km round trip commute many of my neighbours do Monday to Friday. An EV could easily be topped nightly at home if range is a concern but the aforementioned Spring would only need to be charged twice a week to cater for the the needs myself and my neighbours would have in this part of rural Ireland.

    Misinformation seems to be the biggest battle ahead.

    🌞 7.79kWp PV System. Comprised of 4.92kWp Tilting Ground Mount + 2.87kWp @ 27°, azimuth 180°, West Waterford 🌞



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,856 ✭✭✭zg3409


    I would argue rural areas are where people have off street parking, own their own homes and so can get home charger, can get solar panels for charging cars for free. Often commutes to school and work are long, with modern EVs range of 300km+ it may make sense for many. Urban on street is an issue. I know someone driving a Mercedes ICE cannot buy a Mercedes EV due to on street parking with no charger (and cost of car). They would be mad to try.

    In terms of a step change in EV vs ICE, a lot of brand new car sales are not EV and while sales of diesels are dropping many owners are simply holding off buying anything due to cost and confusion over EV. Many car owners can't decide and just keep what they have an delay. Massive depreciation, massive price increases in recent years, price drops and more price drops, trade in prices, high interest rates just cause people to hang on to what they have. The Mercedes owner I know did his first NCT ever as he never has had a 4 year old car.

    As an EV owner I am not telling everyone to go EV, public charging is still an issue at peak times, although with a long range EV it's less of an issue. There is lots of mis information but some of it is somewhat relevant.

    In terms of getting a home charger it's better to get one before the EV arrives as it can take a month or two and if you were grant approved before December 2023 you will get 600 euro grant, no need to have an EV, but you need to claim before grant expires. It can take surprisingly long to get a home charger installed.



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