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Gript-A source of misinformation. **Read OP before posting**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Who is Gript 'managing up' to? Their funding sources are kept a secret.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae


    Christ if they think Gript is middle of the road I’d shudder to think what other bile they are consuming.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,649 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Why would it matter to you what other people are reading? Should I be worried about what bile you are consuming because you seem to be have tunnel vision that anyone who does not consume the same as you wrong or far right? Why do you feel you are right?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae


    It matters because I’d hate for the far right to get a foothold in society. I believe in people not being racists. Now ultimately people are gonna read what they want. This is just a message board, chill Winston.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    The thing is, they clearly only used one source and then blamed it on a conspiracy by the Gardai... That's less putting your hands up and more going for the Donald Trump response... Any other media outlets tend to make a standard apology on top of any damages in that scenario.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,649 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    I am chilled but it seems from reading your posts you are the one that is up in arms labelling people who read different publications to you or who may not agree with your stance. You do come across as very angry with anyone that may hold a different opinion to you. Me I couldn't careless if you only get your news from RTE or the indo or whatever that is your choice as it is the choice of other as to where they consume their news or whatever. I will make up my own mind and will others as you do. Coming on screaming at people and calling them Far right or what ever other labels you want to throw is not helping anything and is infact driving people in the direction that you say you don't want them to go.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae


    i am chilled but to call Gript middle of the road is fundamentally incorrect. Why not just admit what you’s are. 3 posters so far and no answer let’s try a 4th , do you support the recent arson attacks?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭Shoog




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,649 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    These things happen in a rush to get a "scoop". It is unfortunate what happened to that man and yes I am sure Gript will more than likely pay for it but does it mean then that everything they print should be dismissed. Did RTE on the night of the riots also claim that the Army were on the streets should we dismiss everything said by them now as well?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,649 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    I never said Gript were middle of the road. Can you point out where I said that please?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭NoMoreDonegalTuesdays


    The best we have are journalists who operate in good faith and are prepared to tell the truth and not be slaves to one narrative or another.

    It's a combination of value judgments and common sense as to who those people are. I would say a majority of journalists pass that test, but that doesn't mean there still can't be problems with the organisations they work for.

    Politics - and I mean the politics of everybody in the world - and we all have politics - has largely divided into those who who value facts and context and overarching truth, who are prepared to confront realities they don't like, and those who don't, who see information only as a way to get what they want, who have no problem in distorting reality.

    The reality based spectrum stretches further on the left than it does on the right. There is a segment on the left who don't value truth and context, epitomised by Clare Daly, Mick Wallace etc. But mainstream right wing parties internationally like the Republicans in the US and the Tories in Britain have been largely colonised by conspiracism and disdain for truth.

    If I hear Brendan O'Connor come on the radio in a Sunday morning, I can often be quite irked by things about his programme, but I don't think he's trying to push propaganda on me. The same can be said of pretty much all of RTE's news and current affairs output, or papers of record like The Irish Times and The Guardian. That doesn't mean I don't become highly annoyed if, for instance, I hear RTE platforming the Israeli ambassador and failing to challenge her sufficiently, in a similar manner to how the Russian ambassador would be challenged.

    Media ownership is a major thing. If a publication is owned by Rupert Murdoch, it's a red flag. That doesn't mean Murdoch doesn't have some credible publications among his stable - I would largely trust the journalism section of The Times for instance, but I am aware that Murdoch's editorial lines and the opinion sections of The Times are going to be filled with a lot of right wing blowhards with no particular love for reality. And that he runs a stable of outlets which are largely designed to push a view of the world which has long strayed away from reality.

    Other major publications which identify as right-wing or populist have slid steadily away from reality and are also largely failing these tests. Examples would be The Daily Telegraph and The Daily Mail.

    Gript fail every test. They're a fascist blog run in service to fascist narratives.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae


    You didn’t. I was having a conversation with a different poster , you barged in. I gave you the context then. It is a far right news source. Love it if you want. Enjoy your day. Oh that’s 4 out of 4 on the arson front.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,377 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    left wing and honesty is much the same. Centre and honesty as well unfortunately for us all balanced honest media doesn't exist anymore. if it ever did.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,649 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    I agree with everything you say but are the MSM holding governments to account? Now like you I get annoyed when as you say RTE have the Israeli ambassador on and don't challenge her or when they have government ministers on and its a cozy little chat but if they someone on from the opposition and I don't just mean SF and the interviews are like chalk and cheese. Then again that is just my opinion. There may be more like me out there that are seeing this cozy little relationship between MSM and politicians where the media are not holding the politicians to account and then comes someone like Ben Scanlan and he starts asking the difficult questions and then you see the government ministers squirm who up till then get thrown soft ball questions that they can bat away.

    I would blame this cozy relationship and the fact that journalist/reporters seem to be not holding the government to account for the rise of publications like Gript.



  • Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭NoMoreDonegalTuesdays


    I definitely agree that the modus operandi of the Republican party in America is to trash expertise and create a fantasy world to appeal to the gullible and hateful.

    Unfortunately I disagree that Trump will lose. America really is that far down the rabbit hole of conspiracism that it will likely put Trump back in, likely with a minority of votes, and with the help of Russia-backed no hope chaos candidates. But with turnout for Biden likely to be well down, not least because of his failure to stand up to Israel, that will be enough for Trump to win the electoral college.

    And it will be a total disaster for the world, because the Putinist axis will basically run America and put it into Russia's camp.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭Shoog


    It is up to us to do due diligence on the narratives we follow, if reading journalism is the only due diligence we ever do then we have failed and are victims of someone else's agenda.

    If the readers of Gript followed this maxim then they would quickly realise that they are been lied to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,601 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Holding the Govt to account on behalf of who though? Gript's audience is clearly very right wing, conservative and reactionary - they don't seem to be even bothering to appeal to anyone from a mainstream audience or inform them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭Shoog


    No one polls the independents adequately in America - and it was the independents which lost Trump the last election and it will be the independents who lose him this one. Only the MAGA die-hards actually believe the Trump narrative and a solid MAGA vote just isn't enough. It will be a repeat of the last election - but Trump will have none of the leavers of power to pull to try and game the election. The only thing Trump will have left is insurrection Mk2 - but that will go incredibly badly for him and his supporters. A bunch of pensioners wielding guns will be a nasty sort of cannon fodder.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,377 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    oh absolutely I'm in late middle age and try to get different news inputs.

    interestingly a work colleague whose kids are in the 20s get all their news off social media. he was trying to explain the social media is one person's opinion after been told its on social media so it must be trueand you need to balance where you get info from or at least check it from different sources.

    nah didn't wash

    world we live in now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,649 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Is that a serious question? it is the job of the media, well it use to be, to hold governments to account, to expose wrong doing, is that not the case anymore? Its seems to me that you don't think a government should be held to account and should be allowed do as they wish? Is this correct?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    You can no longer use the old definition of leftist no more than you can no longer use the old definition of right wing.

    In decades past left leaning meant firstly pro labour union, pro state ownership, pro working class which meant pro social welfare & state provided healthcare/education and housing, somewhat socially liberal and pro women rights.

    Nowadays half of that isn't on the agenda of the modern left, because if it were still pro working class as above it would certainly not be so pro immigration which especially competes with the native working class for limited state resources.

    For instance the 1960s leftist British Labour party would now be seen as far right.

    Identity politics, pro mass immigration and so called woke agenda are now to the fore for modern leftists and the likes of Irish Times, Irish Independent, RTE, Newstalk, etc follow the very same agenda, hence they are now seen as left wing.

    Also the likes of RTE were even somewhat left leaning when you go back decades and see the numbers connected to old Labour and how they pushed social issues often against the wishes of church and state resources.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,601 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Gript are clearly pursing a (right wing / hard right) agenda and aren't trying to inform anyone - more to gaslight their own readers.

    I think the criticisms of the Irish MSM are a little unfair. They are paragons of virtue compared to the utterly rancid Tory press in the UK, whose sole mission in life appears to be to keep the Conservative Party in power. The Irish MSM are fair enough in their treatment of opposition voices IMO - look at how often the likes of Richard Boyd Barrett, Jackie Healy Rae and Verona Murphy are seen on TV.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,012 ✭✭✭Shoog


    You clearly do not understand Left wing thinking which has always been based on solidarity across all boundaries. What you call wokism is at the core of left wing politics and always has been.

    Yours is just a right wing wedge narrative to try to cleave off left wing support.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,430 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Actually, all those are very much on the agenda of the modern left. Look at any of the contemporary left-wing parties or groupings in Ireland and you will very much find "pro labour union, pro state ownership, pro working class which meant pro social welfare & state provided healthcare/education and housing, somewhat socially liberal and pro women rights" are central tenets of their respective manifestoes. Of course, there is a spectrum within the left, but there always has been. And yes, the left-wing belief in fairness and equality does usually put them on the side of marginalised social groups.

    When I read Tribune or Jacobin, I know I'm getting a clear leftist perspective, as I also do when I hear Jeremy Corbyn, Richard Boyd Barrett or any number of other contemporary politicians of the left. Love them or hate them, their ideological stance is clear and unapologetic. I do not get that when reading any Irish newspaper or watching any Irish news broadcast, other than as part of a panel or line-up of ideologically diverse views. It's nonsense to suggest they are 'leftist' publications. The only reason for suggesting otherwise is to try to shift fringe right-wing views closer to the centre of the spectrum.

    That contemporary liberalism and centrism has a generally progressive social slant does not mean the traditional political spectrum is non-existent. There is an argument that some liberals use identity politics as an attempt to distract away from actual left-wing change or mask their otherwise conservative viewpoints, but that is quadruply the case with the contemporary right who very much want to exaggerate 'wedge issues' in a bid to maintain the status quo and prevent progressive societal change. Easier for them to stir outrage over immigrants or transgender people than it is for them to admit they'd hate to see a major transfer of wealth or strengthened regulation of corporations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,269 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    You can no longer use the old definition of leftist no more than you can no longer use the old definition of right wing.

    It's only the right and the purveyors of the right that are so insistent on this.

    And it's nonsense.

    :/



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,589 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    ”stirring up racial hatred”???

    just because they call for a controlled, sensible migration system ??

    Get out there in the real world and stop labelling a middle of the road conservative media outlet as “far right”.



  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    And that's why they are not trustworthy as journalists

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,703 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    If it's justified as a rush to get the scoop then that's an ethics issue. Places still do additional verifications before publishing. On top of that, publications have effectively had their reputations ruined based on one story. The Sun being a pretty prominent one based on their reporting of Hillsborough. Gript also simply don't have a journalistic reputation atm, shock headlines that largely focus on immigrants appears to be about it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Yeah that was why the left wing British labour party government published a very restrictive white paper on immigration in UK from Commonwealth countries.

    They saw solidarity with their own working class citizens and voters as more important than solidarity with immigrants from Jamaica, Nigeria, Kenya, etc.

    The old college educated Champagne Socialists were the ones more concerned with this world solidarity.

    The ordinary leftists were copped on enough to know it was food in the bellies of their own workers that mattered most.

    If the left were always about modern work politics why didn't the likes of British labour party decriminalise homesexuality in the labour governments of 1920s and 1940s.

    They were more concerned with building public housing, social welfare, education, NHS for healthcare for all, nationalisations, etc.

    You know the real concerns of the working classes.

    It was only in the 1960s that Labour tackled discrimination in pay, racial discrimination and decriminalising homosexuality.

    If you look at Mitterands socialist/communist government of 1980s it was massive nationalisations, pro union, worker welfare, welfare state that were the focus.

    So remind us what the lefts priorities have always been?

    I am not allowed discuss …



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  • Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I think you have bought Gript propaganda that's its purpose is all about holding government to account.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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