Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

1525355575870

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,442 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    I was down there Monday when the Gardai were enforcing it, spoke to them and said the only rule/law being broken is crossing the white line in the middle of the road, so they stopped people turning into Westwood traelling outbound, and people exiting Westwood and turning right. No issue stopping in a bus lane to turn into WW.


    I think it would resolve the issue a ittle, as people coming from Clontarf area would be more likely to use the overflow carpark, so should relieve strain on the main. Also, people coming from Marino direction wouldn't stop traffic turning right.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,797 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    That is not a good road to build a fire station on, AB road is very busy, at least on North Strand they have a Bus Lane on either side of the road to allow fire trucks to get past traffic. There's nothing like that on AB Road (Unless they're building bus lanes)



  • Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    It would be great if they could work with Irish Rail to use the access road along the rail line to create a one way flow through the main car park.

    It would also encourage people to use the overflow, as that access road is 50m closer to the overflow entrance. If you see cars queuing up ahead you're likely to just use the overflow.




  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    There's a fair height distance between the two, the IR access road is a ramp.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,497 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    The Westwood problem is down to bad driving and lack of enforcement, pure and simple. People calling for more car parks are forgetting that the whole city is a car park. It’s just a question of entitlement- people feeling they have a right to park within 30m of the door and to hell with parking on footpaths and bus lanes and cycle lanes while waiting. I ran past there at 8:30 tonight and it was worse than ever - actually had to squeeze between two cars and one driver gave me the finger when I told him he is parked on a footpath (it’s not a driveway). There’s a similar problem down at the astroturf pitches entrance, but at least that doesn’t manifest all day, like the gym. Park the f*ck somewhere else, gym people!

    /rant



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    I passed at 3pm, and there was already cars blocking the path and cycle lane, as wells as six more on the road.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,035 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Dublin should be a parking wardens paradise and it would be extra money for the council if they ticketed all the illegal parking.

    Why doesnt it happen?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Who knows? Parking wardens and cameras. Easy solutions to get motorists be behave better.

    There's a parking enforcement officer in Toronto that I follow on twitter. She works on a bike, and gets so much done. Even when they try and speed away before the ticket goes on the windshield, it gets sent by post. We need something like that here.

    It seems that a lot of laws just aren't taken seriously in this country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,035 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Yep. It does feel like laws are optional in Ireland.

    Not just traffic laws either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,333 ✭✭✭bikeman1


    They should simply remove that car park, save for a few accessible spaces to the left.

    Then make a cool outdoor area for some training, even have seats and make it a pleasant area beside the park. That car park is doing nothing but cause hassle.

    ps nearly got mowed over by a cyclist (I was walking) coming outbound while I was walking in towards town after Westwood.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 5,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭G_R


    I also flow her and I moved to Toronto about 6 months ago. I've seen her colleagues but not her. One of these days I'll see her 😂



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    While I don't think it is a waste of resources, the issue I'd have is that we all know that the Gardai will only be around for a few days. Then they will disappear and people will go back to doing it again.

    The exact same happened on Griffith Avenue, DCC parking enforcement were around for two weeks or so and people behaved and I haven't seen the parking enforcement in months now and of course some people are back to parking in the cycle lane!

    Unfortunately I do think we need to build infrastructure so that it physically can't be abused (e.g. waste high solid dividers protecting cycle lane, etc). Perhaps automated cameras issuing fines too.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,424 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Unfortunately I do think we need to build infrastructure so that it physically can't be abused (e.g. waste high solid dividers protecting cycle lane, etc). Perhaps automated cameras issuing fines too.

    The bus lane also needs protecting - however, like the Santry N1 junction with Collins Ave, it needs garda enforcement or drivers will just use it without fear



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Very true and not just here, but across the entire bus network. Probably best done with automated cameras at bus gates and also cameras on the buses themselves automatically issuing fines to cars in the bus lanes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    My recent observations on the 24/7 bus lanes along Drumcondra road is that compliance is way up. If all bus lanes in the city were made 24/7, then drivers would have no excuse to justify to themselves. The vast majority of people want to respect the rules, but when there is ambiguity on the rules (only some lanes are 24/7), people abuse that ambiguity.

    Fully segregated lanes would be great, but for much of the city it's not possible given the level of driveways etc. Also, I'm not sure how well automatic cameras would work in practice given the shear level of driveways and side roads, plus at junctions you need to move into a bus lane to turn left etc.?



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Marked areas for turning lanes. If you are outside of the marked area, but in the bus lane, you get a ticket. Cars entering/exiting driveways wouldn't get a ticket as they would be 90 degrees to the lane and not actually in it and the camera couldn't catch the license plate anyway.

    Of course you'd have a process for people to challenge the fines and the camera footage could be reviewed.

    Of course you could also have static cameras at obvious pinch points, also cameras integrated with traffic lights, both to enforce bus lanes and red light jumping.



  • Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    I think static cameras at pinch points is good and definitely for cars who use a bus lane to go straight through a junction.

    But any aggressive level of cameras is unrealistic. For example, it's unreasonable to expect someone to stay in a traffic jam for 5 minutes when their driveway or minor side road is only 50 metres up ahead. If they wait in the general traffic lane until right outside their driveway/side road, they will hold up all the traffic while they wait for buses, cyclists and pedestrians to clear out of the way.

    It's safer for them to use the bus lane for a short space rather than crossing a bus lane, cycle lane and pedestrian path in one move.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭Breezer


    I’m sorry, but I don’t agree. “My house is only 50 m up ahead” becomes:

    ”I’m turning left just up ahead” (indicator on for the next 3 junctions),

    ”I’m pulling in to park just up ahead” (blocks the lane waiting for parking to appear/letting passenger out to the shops ‘just for 2 minutes’)

    ”I’m just going around the car ahead that’s turning right” (mounts the footpath to get past said car).

    We need a law that is enforced. Private traffic should not be in a bus lane. And if general traffic is so heavy that drivers feel they need to be in a bus lane to skip queues of traffic, then they’re not going to hold up that traffic for very long, relatively speaking, by turning into their driveways (while looking carefully for cyclists, pedestrians, etc.) They could also consider getting the bus instead of driving, in order to avoid the queue of traffic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 632 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    My only point here is that over aggressive use of camera enforcement for bus lanes is unworkable when there are driveways and side roads every 20 metres.

    At junctions, yes. Bus gates, definitely. Other than that, it's not workable and unnecessary. It's not safe to cross multiple lanes in one movement.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,663 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    Look into my eyes………

    Outside the bike shop at Marino Mart. It moves with you……



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,059 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    With on-bus cameras, I don't think people pulling into driveways would be an issue. A fine would be issued but the driver could challenge it, the footage reviewed and if it shows that they did turn into a driveway a short distance ahead, the fine cancelled. Those abusing it would not be seen turning on camera and their fine would stand. I don't see why it wouldn't work.

    Post edited by Pete_Cavan on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭Breezer


    I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest it’s probably been done somewhere else, successfully, for years?

    If we could even roll these out it would be a massive improvement, I’ll give you that.

    Sorry I know we’re gone off topic now. Last I’ll say about this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,487 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    they're using a different entrance this weekend, interesting



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    That's the bus only road from Clontarf station onto the Alfie Byrne road.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    Great to hear they are having a meeting about it being difficult short term, for members to black the cycle lane and footpath.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86 ✭✭sasal




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,954 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Didn’t interview one person who used PT. 🙄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,497 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Road tax, Joe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,497 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    No suggestion at all in that blog post or related ones that members might consider parking elsewhere or using alternative means. 🙄



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,797 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    Westwood joining fee is €500 and €90 a month after that. If I was paying that kind of money I'd be wanting a car park right outside.

    It's not a driving problem, it's a Westwood problem. They're charging top dollar for a service that they cannot provide.

    They need to provide more parking or reduce they're head count or move the club somewhere else.

    Also I left town using the Car on Saturday via North Strand Rd. The plan was to only temporarily stop cars in bound right? doesn't look like there is room for 2 car lanes and 2 bus lanes on large sections of the road. I think it'll be 3 lanes max. I could be wrong now, but it doesn't seem possible to me. (and I drive a small car)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,487 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    The lanes going in and out will be the same as they were previous to the works.

    I'm a member of westwood and couldn't care less if there were no parking spaces at all so not everyone prioritises parking. You see way more people walking and cycling into the place while drivers sit in their cars blocking the bus and bike lanes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,797 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    I take you're point RE: people cycling/walking.

    Maybe they should reduce subscription for those who don't want a parking spot, they'd then know the true head count for those that wish to drive there. (and be able to plan for it accordingly)

    Probably wouldn't work though, as they have that global membership stuff (Wouldn't translate well to other westwood centres)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,663 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    Chances of them doing that is next to zero but they could increase charges for members who want access to Car Park 1…….



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,487 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    i use the one in sandymount too, it has hardly any parking and it still manages to function ok.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,797 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    In Fairness the Club in Clontarf is over 10 times the size the only in Sandy mount, if you don't include the tennis courts it's about 5 times the size.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,442 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    The only thing that's changed with WW with this development is the addition of the bike lane, they need to figure out a way to better protect that from traffic.

    After that, sounds like a lot of the issues at the moment are the roadworks narrowing lanes, nce that's resolved hpefully it'll go back to functioning



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Very simple, put barriers on the car park (at least car park 1) and charge €20 per hour for parking.

    I would point out that many people who use Westwood, do so by walking/cycling/public transport. It is in the middle of a dense residential area, where lots of people can walk to it from. It is a 10 minutes walk from a major growing business park that is also served by a free mini bus. DART station right next to it, multiple bus lanes and now one of the cities busiest bike lanes. You really can't get a much better connected gym for walking/cycling/PT.

    Of course they could always look into build a multi storey car park at either car park 1 or 2. Maybe do a three way deal with DCC, Irish Rail and Westwood to develop the two car parks next to the DART station into a shared multi storey car park and close the one in front of the Gym.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,797 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    John and Mary have paid €100,000 for their Audi Q7.... they're not going to be using public transport, nor are they gonna pay for parking. There are ALOT of very expensive cars in the Westwood car park day to day.

    Westwood would lose a lot of customers if they did that. They're already way over priced when compared with Gym's like Flyefit (They're carrying 90's/Celtic tiger bloat).

    Realistically it's to big a premises in the wrong place. I think multistory would be an option but again that comes back to paying.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    If you put paid parking in, they will have to pay or leave their car home, simple as that.

    Tough if they aren't happy with it and tough on Westwood if they aren't, neither have a god given right to block bus lanes and cycle lanes.

    BTW I'd disagree that high earners don't use public transport, lots of folks with high paying jobs using the DART on the way too and from work, etc.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,424 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The problem is not one of payment, public transport, spaces or whatever. It is simply one where people driving there feel they have the right to block the bus lane, the cycle path and the foot path. The gardai pretty much don't want to be bothered with it and the WW management don't care (and don't want to annoy their members by asking them to obey the law).

    WW need to be encouraging members to use the overflow car park (by choosing it before the main car park) and not creating traffic obstructions. How they do that though is really up to them but the council should be penalising them otherwise.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    You do that via barriers and paid parking. Basically the issue is too many people trying to park in car park 1, thus leading to queues.

    By making it €20 [1] per hour for car park 1 (while free for car park 2) you encourage less people to use car park 1 (the price sensitive ones) and thus eliminate the queues.

    [1] doesn't need to be €20, could be €5 or €50, whatever the price needs to be so that car park 1 is never full and thus no queues.

    It is the same concept how congestion charging works or the tolls on the port tunnel. The aim isn't to stop everyone from using them, but to reduce usage to a sustainable level.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,424 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    You do that via barriers and paid parking. Basically the issue is too many people trying to park in car park 1, thus leading to queues.

    You will still get the seflish entitled tossers sitting in their cars on the bus lane & cycle path while they wait the half hour for the barrier to lift.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    The point would be to set the parking charge high enough so that the car park is never full, so there would be no waiting at the barrier, there would always be space available in the car park.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,442 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    You're just mving the problem 10m down the road then bk, you block up the footpath/buslane at car park 2


    I get the feeling a lot of peoples issue with WW is that it's an expensive gym, nearly every comment is centred around money, "Audi Q7s", "high earners", "celtic tiger" etc. It's no different to the SuperValu in Killester, which also blocks footpaths, bus lanes with the entrance. End of the day, everythign has to coexist



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    No, the problem is blocking the bus / cycle lanes for long periods of time. Doesn't matter how expensive or not the car is!

    I disagree it would be just moving the problem 10meters down. There is enough space in car park 2, it is just many people are too lazy to walk from it. I'd often see people queuing for a full car park 1, while there are plenty of free spaces in car park 2.

    If you put paid parking on car park 1, then you better balance the utility between the two car parks. Price sensitive members would be more likely to use he free parking at car park 2, while the lazy ones can pay €20 or whatever to park next to the door.

    This really isn't rocket science.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    It's no different to the SuperValu in Killester, which also blocks footpaths, bus lanes with the entrance. End of the day, everythign has to coexist

    Which is really why we need across the board improvements to enforcement.

    Automated cameras on buses and fixed too polls automatically issuing fines. Put these cameras outside both Westwood and Killester and wherever else it is needed.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,028 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    If you aren't happy with charging for parking, then another solution.

    Barriers on car park 1, that only close when the car park is full. But here is the important bit, when this happens, car park 1 remains closed for the next hour or 2, even if some cars leave. Signs clearly showing that car park 1 is closed for the next hour or two.

    Would stop people from queueing and would push people to use car park 2 instead at busy times.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,797 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    100% agree that high earners use public transport but generally speaking it's the work commute. Not for Non-work activities

    Both Westwood and DCC/Garda think it's the other problem.

    It's messy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,442 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    Car park 2 is queing at mornings and evenings too now, it blocks the bus getting into the dart station quite a bit recently, which is a pain in the hole.


    I don't know what the solution is but lets be realistic, nobody can mandate a private company (westwood) on whether they charge people to use the carpar or not. You're a clever poster and experienced at transport infrastructure, there has to be a solution that's feasible



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,403 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Indeed, Westwood has recently invested a fair amount in upgrading the facilities at Clontarf, and this has resulted in far more cars parking there. Car Park 2 is noticeably fuller at all times of the day, while car park 1 is almost always full.

    I believe that both carparks are still owned by DCC, not just car park 2, and DCC could probably use that to extract concessions from Westwood. The thing is though, there's no easy solution that I can see. People want to drive there, and no one wants to pay for the enforcement required to stop this kind of inconsiderate queueing.



  • Advertisement
Advertisement