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Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

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Comments

  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    It'll just be crappy pool games for the most part, hardly worth moving to play twice a year against Castres or Gloucester.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,383 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Sure, but it's more than he is likely to get at Leinster. I'm not pushing him to move or anything, but he'll almost definitely get higher level games elsewhere.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I wouldn't consider that kind of game higher level than the URC opposition, tbh. Irish clubs and fans hold the CC in higher regard than their domestic league but they're the only ones really and the current state of both competitions doesn't really sway the argument much.

    The likes of Deegan and Penny get dropped like a hot snot when Leinster get to the late stages of Europe but realistically none of the other provinces will be playing in those games any time soon.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,383 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Deegan gets dropped like a hot snot in group games without an injury crisis. He hasn't started a Euro game at all since the 19/20 season. He has 91 minutes of Euro rugby in the last 3 seasons. He also won't play in any high level URC games without the same background.

    I'm fine with him staying at Leinster, he's a good squad player to have. But it would be silly to suggest he is staying to play European rugby or high level rugby in general.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    He played 13 URC games last season including both knockout matches.

    My point is not that he's getting European games at Leinster but that he wouldn't be getting more meaningful game time at another province so there's little draw there.

    He wouldn't be first choice 8 or 6 at Munster in any case, maybe 8 at Connacht and who knows who Ulster would pick from one game to the next. He wouldn't get more than 13 URC games, wouldn't play the knockouts and the only possible improvement in game time would be one or two European group games, quite likely against a disinterested French team's second string. That's not going to get him international exposure either.

    Weighing that up against moving across the country to play under lesser coaches and training with weaker players for the same money, I'd stay put as well, even if the odds of playing a European final or international game were very long.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,666 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I think I mentioned this before, but I think Munster and Ulster have played LAR or Toulouse something like 7 times in the last 2 and a half seasons?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,383 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Starting in our second knockout URC game last season isn't really a positive.

    I'd say he would make the bench at Munster at least and have a good shot at starting for the other two. That would be more like 5 or 6 extra European games a season and he would definitely be involved in URC knockouts. I mean if he couldn't even make the 23 elsewhere the whole argument is silly really.



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭jonok28


    Max Deegan is in the unenviable position that he has a former world player of the year (JVDF), a former lion (Conan), a current world player of the year candidate (Doris) and a current Irish international who is a hybrid lock/forward (Baird) ahead of him. If there is a need at openside flanker Will Connors and Scott Penny step in due to that being their natural position. If Doris is injured, Conan steps in, if Baird is injured Conan or Doris step in. As European games aren't played during international windows, you can expect Leinster will field a full team in them games.

    He is just unlucky honestly, at times this season, especially in the URC Deegan has been one of Leinster's best players.

    If Deegan were to go to Ulster, he would get game time, but it would also force Ulster to move Nick Timoney to openside flanker permanently in order to facilitate Ewers, Timoney and Deegan.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    I'd forgotten Connacht made it to a second URC knockout game last year. I don't know if he'd have started over Prendergast. He wouldn't have started over Coombes or POM at Munster so making the bench there is hardly a step up from starting for Leinster.

    The CC group stages are only 4 games. Neither Connacht nor Ulster are going any further, Deegan or no Deegan. He'd be playing Challenge Cup games at best.

    Fair enough, Ulster and Munster played the big French teams last year, but Deegan doesn't get ahead of Duane Vermeulen (or Coombes/POM) any more than he does Doris or Conan for those matches.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,876 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Max Deegan is very focused on life after rugby, and sees rugby for what it is, a temporary profession until a certain time where he has to look at gaining work outside of the game. He is business orientated so i cant see him leaving Dublin for another irish province, unless the financial reward was extraordinary.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,020 ✭✭✭hold my beer




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Belvo lost to Zaga. Nooooo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Gonzaga beat Belvedere who beat Clongowes. Ad Majorem Harpastum Gloriam.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    All being fit, who are you dropping for Deegan to make the bench out of POM, Hodnett, Coombes, and Ahern? You better cover your head from some depending on the answer...

    Then you have JOD and highly hyped young players in Gleeson, Kendellen, Quinn, and Edogbo who he'd be taking game time away from. If they all make progress it wont be long until there is a good argument to be shifting some of the Munster backrows elsewhere, even without Deegan moving there, and I'm sure some will be very quickly changing their tune about fair 'resource allocation'.

    Deegan going to the other two provinces makes more sense from a purely game time decision but he will Connacht even be in the CC next year and Ulster is a complete shambles right now and he isn't guaranteed to start for either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,586 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Deegan is a better player than Coombes and Hodnett imo



  • Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭johnh6767


    Anyone know what the team is for Saracens friendly and if it’s streamed? Friday night I gather



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,026 ✭✭✭50HX


    Do any if ye know where/who to contact to get a jersey signed by a former or current player

    Edit to say its not for me or a collectable but for a young lad who has had a sh1t few years & has kept himself straight which was a great achievement as a minor



  • Registered Users Posts: 363 ✭✭DelMcG


    A particular player or just any Leinster player(s)?

    My thoughts would be to either contact the Leinster press office with your request/backstory or if it's a particular player, maybe contact their agent/agency. NavyBlue Sports have a lot of players on their books. You could also try LineUp Sports or Frontier Sports Management.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,026 ✭✭✭50HX


    Thanks for that @DelMcG, if I could get Johnny Sexton twould make his year



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    I think his best position is probably 6 but it would be tough to beat out ahern there as ahern's upside is so high. He might be better right now but ahern seems to be already ahead of prendergast there for ireland so maybe not.

    He is a completely different player to hodnett. Hodnett is definitely better at his role in their offense than deegan is. I generally can't remember Deegan playing seven either.

    He doesn't seem to be definitively ahead of coombes in the ireland reckoning even though he is a much closer role fit to doris than coombes. So, i don't know if he is better there.

    However, he would play loads. Ahern and coombes seem to play lock a decent bit, and with normal rotation he'd play alot of 6 and 8 .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3


    Leinster Rugby (caps in brackets)

    15. Henry McErlean (1)

    14. Aitzol King (1)

    13. Liam Turner (24)

    12. Ben Brownlee (5)

    11. Andrew Osborne (0)

    10. Sam Prendergast (11)

    9. Ben Murphy (10)

    1. Michael Milne (32)

    2. John McKee (22)

    3. Rory McGuire (3)

    4. Brian Deeny (16)

    5. Conor O’Tighearnaigh (1)

    6. Rhys Ruddock (225) (CAPTAIN)

    7. Will Connors (44)

    8. Diarmuid Mangan (0)


    Subs From:

    Gus McCarthy (0)

    Paddy McCarthy (4)

    Thomas Clarkson (34)

    Temi Lasisi (2)

    Jason Jenkins (30)

    Scott Penny (65)

    Max Deegan (106)

    Fintan Gunne (1)

    Luke McGrath (202)

    Luke Kritzinger (0)

    Jamie Osborne (37)

    Ruben Moloney (0)



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    No Culhane?

    Never heard of Kritzinger before.

    Milne's first outing of the season?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3


    Culhane is injured along with Tector, Cooney, Molony, Cosgrave.

    Kriztinger is a centre who didnt make irish u20 squad.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    How many Moloneys do we have at the moment? Ross, Martin and is there another guy who was u20 last year? Liam? Conor?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3


    yep Liam.

    There are Molonys - Ross/Liam

    and Moloneys - Martin & Ruben.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Is this the last chance to lay down a marker for Lasisi?



  • Registered Users Posts: 733 ✭✭✭durthacht


    It is a rare chance to impress for a lot of those guys. These opportunities are rare so I imagine lots of them will be very nervous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 724 ✭✭✭Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3


    ruben moloneys try at the weekend, from 3:41: https://youtu.be/P8_AnJ3gZf8?si=tgQB5kjWUABAOLHA





  • Is there any word of a YouTube stream or anything for the match tomorrow?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭CORMACREYN


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭jonok28


    Murray Kinsella saying as of right now, Ulster haven't any plans to replace Billy Burns "As things stand, Ulster aren’t set to bring in a replacement for Burns and it seems that 22-year-old scrum-half Nathan Doak could play at out-half more often next season, competing with 24-year-old Jake Flannery for the number 10 shirt." They are also set to lose Will Addison and potentially Dave Ewers as well as Eric O'Sullivan and James French heading out the door.

    No wonder Leinster thought they could grab Tom O'Toole. Didn't realise Ulster were in such a bad way. Hopefully they can turn it around sooner rather than later, I always enjoyed the competitive fixtures with our friends up north.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,740 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    I think the threat of playing Doak at 10 next season is Ulster playing some barely transparent messages to the IRFU

    "Send us a 10 or we're moving one of the more promising young 9s in the country out of position"

    Doak was one of the most complete underage 9s we saw in the last number of years and while he hasn't kicked on despite being the preferred senior 9 over the last 2 seasons I still think he has the tools to be an international player.

    Richie Murphy coming in might be the best thing that happens in his career.

    I wonder where O'Sullivan will end up. He's a very solid prop. But the other 3 provinces have looseheads of his calibre in their ranks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    I really wouldn't be convinced by EOS. He has gone backwards massively after being a very promising prospect a few years ago. He really doesn't stand out for anything good on the few occasions he does play. He seemed to be a big favourite of McFarland's when he first came through, enjoying a huge amount of game time. But that has dropped massively in the last couple of seasons and he seems very ineffectual when he plays now whether in his carrying, set piece or clear outs.

    At 29 this season, I wouldn't be surprised if he has to go somewhere fairly low level if he wants another contract.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,740 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Agree he's not going anywhere to be first choice.

    I'd consider him on par with Dooley, Wycherly etc. and wouldn't have him ahead of Ed Byrne at any point.

    29 is a good age profile for a prop with a good injury record and he's relatively experienced. Connacht could be a shout for him



  • Posts: 0 Dexter Kind Boar


    Deleted. Wrong thread.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,751 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    If that's the case, Leinster should be worried. The central contract narrative is already being used in relation to Snyman, if Ulster's finances are a mess it ups the pressure on the IRFU to support Leinster less.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,383 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I don't think Leinster are in any dire need of IRFU support.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,751 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    Central contracts are essentially IRFU support



  • Registered Users Posts: 215 ✭✭johnh6767




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Agreed. Leinster suffer from not being the squeaky wheel for the last decade plus.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,383 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Well the entire funding system is murky, but I'm not worried about Leinster's finances. We probably shouldn't expect to always have 9 of 11 central contracts or whatever it is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,630 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    If Ulster are blaming the reshuffle match to the Aviva for their problems, the business model is poor. Murphy better check into everything before he signs on.

    Murphy getting the interim and possible Ulster job could affect Leinster with intakes to the academy. I wonder if his son's would move up north with him?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    I doubt it unless the see their way blocked. Hard to get over nepotism claims



  • Posts: 0 Dexter Kind Boar


    In fairness to Ulster, if you have to refund 18,000 tickets at Champions Cup prices, make no stadium beer/food revenues, and still have to pay most of the associated match day expenses you're £500,000+ out of pocket very fast. Any of the other provinces would struggle to absorb a similar hit. It does explain the majority of their operating loss for the 22/23 season.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol



    Central contracts aren't the godsend or hack they are made out to be by some. It can be lazy analysis.

    They come with strings, you need more depth to cover them, your team is more disrupted, and your players can end up wrecked.

    It is a good problem to have. Always good to have more of the best players but there is an argument that Leinster over the last few years have suffered by holding up too much of the Irish team by itself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Lots of criticism can be made of the central contract system from a provincial perspective but these conditions aren't them. You get marquee players who the union pay for and who are available for all your most important games. They do not get wrecked or anything like it, the cc system is literally designed to ensure that doesn't happen. The argument that Leinster suffers from having too many good players...doesn't make sense in any way. Leinster aren't 'suffering', they have failed to get over the line in Europe for the last few years because of their own limitations in player stocks and coaching, it has nothing to do with the IRFU or with central contracts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Well tell the other provinces complaining earlier in the year for having to rest their few centrally contracted players. Leinster have had to do this for a good chunk of their team for the last decade. Also, talk to Munster when they packed out the Irish team during their peak years and how the feeling was that it took its toll on them at club level.

    Having the bulk of your starting team play AIs, 6 nations, Summer Tours takes it toll versus training with your club team. Getting the odd week off from the URC doesnt balance out the effort. Look at Stade Rochelle last season vs this season when it comes to their players being involved in international rugby and the impact it has had. I dont think there is an argument that it is easier to settle in with a new coach, like Leinster are, if your players actually get to train with him for more time.

    I said it was a good problem to have, but it would be great if the other provinces could carry some of the load of developing their own elite level players.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭ersatz


    We are taking about Leinster now, not Munster 20 years ago. Leinster have lost a handful of URC matches and fewer European matches in the last few years. Rugby is about results, are you arguing they would have won those matches if they didn't have Central Contracts? If its not the fault of central contracts then what are you on about?



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol



    You ignored the other provinces complaining about resting their handful of players just a few months ago.

    Not sure what is confusing, in general of course Leinster would have had a better chance of winning more matches if the frontline team was available more frequently and not being mandated to rest.

    Leinster have managed to be successful over the decade of providing the vast majority of the national team because they are an extremely well run organisation. The central contract savings could have been absolutely squandered but they havent been - they just set the next players up.

    When it came to the latter end of the last few competitions Leinster lost by the narrowest of margins. Would the majority of their team not having to carry the country give them the tiniest of improvement that could have given them that extra percent in those situations? I would say yes but understand others disagreeing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,570 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Glad we cleared that up. Leinster losses to LAR down to Central Contracts and IRFU meddling. I've heard to all.



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