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Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

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Comments

  • #2702
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804201#Comment_121804201

    Very true and not just here, but across the entire bus network. Probably best done with automated cameras at bus gates and also cameras on the buses themselves automatically issuing fines to cars in the bus lanes.



  • #2703
    loco_scolo
    Registered Users Posts: 615 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804201#Comment_121804201

    My recent observations on the 24/7 bus lanes along Drumcondra road is that compliance is way up. If all bus lanes in the city were made 24/7, then drivers would have no excuse to justify to themselves. The vast majority of people want to respect the rules, but when there is ambiguity on the rules (only some lanes are 24/7), people abuse that ambiguity.

    Fully segregated lanes would be great, but for much of the city it's not possible given the level of driveways etc. Also, I'm not sure how well automatic cameras would work in practice given the shear level of driveways and side roads, plus at junctions you need to move into a bus lane to turn left etc.?



  • #2704
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804375#Comment_121804375

    Marked areas for turning lanes. If you are outside of the marked area, but in the bus lane, you get a ticket. Cars entering/exiting driveways wouldn't get a ticket as they would be 90 degrees to the lane and not actually in it and the camera couldn't catch the license plate anyway.

    Of course you'd have a process for people to challenge the fines and the camera footage could be reviewed.

    Of course you could also have static cameras at obvious pinch points, also cameras integrated with traffic lights, both to enforce bus lanes and red light jumping.



  • #2705
    loco_scolo
    Registered Users Posts: 615 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804456#Comment_121804456

    I think static cameras at pinch points is good and definitely for cars who use a bus lane to go straight through a junction.

    But any aggressive level of cameras is unrealistic. For example, it's unreasonable to expect someone to stay in a traffic jam for 5 minutes when their driveway or minor side road is only 50 metres up ahead. If they wait in the general traffic lane until right outside their driveway/side road, they will hold up all the traffic while they wait for buses, cyclists and pedestrians to clear out of the way.

    It's safer for them to use the bus lane for a short space rather than crossing a bus lane, cycle lane and pedestrian path in one move.



  • #2706
    Breezer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭Breezer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804785#Comment_121804785

    I’m sorry, but I don’t agree. “My house is only 50 m up ahead” becomes:

    ”I’m turning left just up ahead” (indicator on for the next 3 junctions),

    ”I’m pulling in to park just up ahead” (blocks the lane waiting for parking to appear/letting passenger out to the shops ‘just for 2 minutes’)

    ”I’m just going around the car ahead that’s turning right” (mounts the footpath to get past said car).

    We need a law that is enforced. Private traffic should not be in a bus lane. And if general traffic is so heavy that drivers feel they need to be in a bus lane to skip queues of traffic, then they’re not going to hold up that traffic for very long, relatively speaking, by turning into their driveways (while looking carefully for cyclists, pedestrians, etc.) They could also consider getting the bus instead of driving, in order to avoid the queue of traffic.



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  • #2707
    loco_scolo
    Registered Users Posts: 615 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121804971#Comment_121804971

    My only point here is that over aggressive use of camera enforcement for bus lanes is unworkable when there are driveways and side roads every 20 metres.

    At junctions, yes. Bus gates, definitely. Other than that, it's not workable and unnecessary. It's not safe to cross multiple lanes in one movement.



  • #2708
    Gloomtastic!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    Look into my eyes………

    IMG_5450.jpeg

    Outside the bike shop at Marino Mart. It moves with you……



  • #2709
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,968 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    With on-bus cameras, I don't think people pulling into driveways would be an issue. A fine would be issued but the driver could challenge it, the footage reviewed and if it shows that they did turn into a driveway a short distance ahead, the fine cancelled. Those abusing it would not be seen turning on camera and their fine would stand. I don't see why it wouldn't work.

    Post edited by Pete_Cavan on


  • #2710
    Breezer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭Breezer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121806718#Comment_121806718

    I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest it’s probably been done somewhere else, successfully, for years?

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121805227#Comment_121805227

    If we could even roll these out it would be a massive improvement, I’ll give you that.

    Sorry I know we’re gone off topic now. Last I’ll say about this.



  • #2711
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://westwood.ie/blog/road-resurfacing-works-at-clontarf-this-weekend

    they're using a different entrance this weekend, interesting



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  • #2712
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,366 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121807572#Comment_121807572

    That's the bus only road from Clontarf station onto the Alfie Byrne road.



  • #2713
    Citizen Six
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,533 ✭✭✭Citizen Six


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121807572#Comment_121807572

    Great to hear they are having a meeting about it being difficult short term, for members to black the cycle lane and footpath.



  • #2714
    sasal
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭sasal


    https://www.rte.ie/archives/2021/0217/1197718-dublin-bus-lane-experiment/?fbclid=IwAR2Ldz-KQYHwr-li8bEu4KVlW2jPog74Le3ouqVuqu_qIg3hooq44Yojguc

    Comments awfully familiar



  • #2715
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,907 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Didn’t interview one person who used PT. 🙄



  • #2716
    Murph_D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,470 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Road tax, Joe.



  • #2717
    Murph_D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,470 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121807572#Comment_121807572

    No suggestion at all in that blog post or related ones that members might consider parking elsewhere or using alternative means. 🙄



  • #2718
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121800315#Comment_121800315

    Westwood joining fee is €500 and €90 a month after that. If I was paying that kind of money I'd be wanting a car park right outside.

    It's not a driving problem, it's a Westwood problem. They're charging top dollar for a service that they cannot provide.

    They need to provide more parking or reduce they're head count or move the club somewhere else.

    Also I left town using the Car on Saturday via North Strand Rd. The plan was to only temporarily stop cars in bound right? doesn't look like there is room for 2 car lanes and 2 bus lanes on large sections of the road. I think it'll be 3 lanes max. I could be wrong now, but it doesn't seem possible to me. (and I drive a small car)



  • #2719
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878497#Comment_121878497

    The lanes going in and out will be the same as they were previous to the works.

    I'm a member of westwood and couldn't care less if there were no parking spaces at all so not everyone prioritises parking. You see way more people walking and cycling into the place while drivers sit in their cars blocking the bus and bike lanes.



  • #2720
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878882#Comment_121878882

    I take you're point RE: people cycling/walking.

    Maybe they should reduce subscription for those who don't want a parking spot, they'd then know the true head count for those that wish to drive there. (and be able to plan for it accordingly)

    Probably wouldn't work though, as they have that global membership stuff (Wouldn't translate well to other westwood centres)



  • #2721
    Gloomtastic!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878921#Comment_121878921

    Chances of them doing that is next to zero but they could increase charges for members who want access to Car Park 1…….



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  • #2722
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121878921#Comment_121878921

    i use the one in sandymount too, it has hardly any parking and it still manages to function ok.



  • #2723
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879001#Comment_121879001

    In Fairness the Club in Clontarf is over 10 times the size the only in Sandy mount, if you don't include the tennis courts it's about 5 times the size.



  • #2724
    Shedite27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,417 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    The only thing that's changed with WW with this development is the addition of the bike lane, they need to figure out a way to better protect that from traffic.

    After that, sounds like a lot of the issues at the moment are the roadworks narrowing lanes, nce that's resolved hpefully it'll go back to functioning



  • #2725
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Very simple, put barriers on the car park (at least car park 1) and charge €20 per hour for parking.

    I would point out that many people who use Westwood, do so by walking/cycling/public transport. It is in the middle of a dense residential area, where lots of people can walk to it from. It is a 10 minutes walk from a major growing business park that is also served by a free mini bus. DART station right next to it, multiple bus lanes and now one of the cities busiest bike lanes. You really can't get a much better connected gym for walking/cycling/PT.

    Of course they could always look into build a multi storey car park at either car park 1 or 2. Maybe do a three way deal with DCC, Irish Rail and Westwood to develop the two car parks next to the DART station into a shared multi storey car park and close the one in front of the Gym.



  • #2726
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879095#Comment_121879095

    John and Mary have paid €100,000 for their Audi Q7.... they're not going to be using public transport, nor are they gonna pay for parking. There are ALOT of very expensive cars in the Westwood car park day to day.

    Westwood would lose a lot of customers if they did that. They're already way over priced when compared with Gym's like Flyefit (They're carrying 90's/Celtic tiger bloat).

    Realistically it's to big a premises in the wrong place. I think multistory would be an option but again that comes back to paying.



  • #2727
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879128#Comment_121879128

    If you put paid parking in, they will have to pay or leave their car home, simple as that.

    Tough if they aren't happy with it and tough on Westwood if they aren't, neither have a god given right to block bus lanes and cycle lanes.

    BTW I'd disagree that high earners don't use public transport, lots of folks with high paying jobs using the DART on the way too and from work, etc.



  • #2728
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,039 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The problem is not one of payment, public transport, spaces or whatever. It is simply one where people driving there feel they have the right to block the bus lane, the cycle path and the foot path. The gardai pretty much don't want to be bothered with it and the WW management don't care (and don't want to annoy their members by asking them to obey the law).

    WW need to be encouraging members to use the overflow car park (by choosing it before the main car park) and not creating traffic obstructions. How they do that though is really up to them but the council should be penalising them otherwise.



  • #2729
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879194#Comment_121879194

    You do that via barriers and paid parking. Basically the issue is too many people trying to park in car park 1, thus leading to queues.

    By making it €20 [1] per hour for car park 1 (while free for car park 2) you encourage less people to use car park 1 (the price sensitive ones) and thus eliminate the queues.

    [1] doesn't need to be €20, could be €5 or €50, whatever the price needs to be so that car park 1 is never full and thus no queues.

    It is the same concept how congestion charging works or the tolls on the port tunnel. The aim isn't to stop everyone from using them, but to reduce usage to a sustainable level.



  • #2730
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,039 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    You do that via barriers and paid parking. Basically the issue is too many people trying to park in car park 1, thus leading to queues.

    You will still get the seflish entitled tossers sitting in their cars on the bus lane & cycle path while they wait the half hour for the barrier to lift.



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  • #2731
    bk
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,835 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121879298#Comment_121879298

    The point would be to set the parking charge high enough so that the car park is never full, so there would be no waiting at the barrier, there would always be space available in the car park.



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