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Increase in Anti-EV Media Articles

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 864 ✭✭✭Norrie Rugger Head


    Most people who move, for work, move TO a city and are no longer rural dwellers.


    People moving rural to rural (several hundred kilometers away, and outside EV range) are a tiny subset

    ⛥ ̸̱̼̞͛̀̓̈́͘#C̶̼̭͕̎̿͝R̶̦̮̜̃̓͌O̶̬͙̓͝W̸̜̥͈̐̾͐Ṋ̵̲͔̫̽̎̚͠ͅT̸͓͒͐H̵͔͠È̶̖̳̘͍͓̂W̴̢̋̈͒͛̋I̶͕͑͠T̵̻͈̜͂̇Č̵̤̟̑̾̂̽H̸̰̺̏̓ ̴̜̗̝̱̹͛́̊̒͝⛥



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,114 ✭✭✭✭josip


    5 years time is a very interesting timeframe, If you go back 8 years, there were 4 times more diesels sold than last year. It looks like the number of diesels sold halves every 4 years. So not quite Plutonium 239, but by 2029 I would expect there will be c10,000 diesels being sold anually. Not negligible, but fairly insignificant.

    2023 - 27,248

    2022 - 28,181

    2021 - 35,086

    2020 - 38,233

    2019 - 54,556

    2018 - 68,367

    2017 - 85,661

    2016 - 102,748



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Vast amounts of people work in a city, but don't live in it.

    I simply said I know some rural people for whom a EV wouldn't work because they do a lot of regular and ad hoc long journeys. It's not that they don't have enough EV range to do A-B.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,799 ✭✭✭micks_address


    Interesting comments from the head of Stellantis the other day on the Chinese brands - he was saying they are selling a higher segment car for lower segment prices.. so a C class segment car at the cost traditionally charged for a B class segment car in Europe/US - his point was if everyone else doesn't figure out pricing there will be less than 5 major manufacturers in ten years worldwide versus about 15 now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I think some of the traditional brands will have to do better on price and quality to avoid being seen as poor value and even quality than the Chinese competition.

    All will have to work hard not decimate their used cars values in the face of price war on new cars. Because no one's going to buy new if they can buy nearly new at a fraction of the price.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 864 ✭✭✭Norrie Rugger Head


    Vast amount of people work in a city but don't live in it? Yeah, I am one.

    When I moved to Dublin for a job I didn't move to rural Mayo or into the bogs of Kildare (that came later). I moved into the city. I knew dozens of people, at work, like me. No one moved to Dublin, to work, and lived in the rural areas. At that point a person like this is a city dweller and makes decisions on the same criteria every city dweller makes, around random trips

    People who move from one rural area to another rural area (for a commute into a city job) are a statistical anomaly and would not factor into anyone's calculations

    ⛥ ̸̱̼̞͛̀̓̈́͘#C̶̼̭͕̎̿͝R̶̦̮̜̃̓͌O̶̬͙̓͝W̸̜̥͈̐̾͐Ṋ̵̲͔̫̽̎̚͠ͅT̸͓͒͐H̵͔͠È̶̖̳̘͍͓̂W̴̢̋̈͒͛̋I̶͕͑͠T̵̻͈̜͂̇Č̵̤̟̑̾̂̽H̸̰̺̏̓ ̴̜̗̝̱̹͛́̊̒͝⛥



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    A period when Ireland had 70% + of diesels and no other market in Europe had such a high concentration, it was always going to fall.

    It’s hard to buy a new diesel now with most companies moving away from them so I expect to see the reduction. Still wondering how people expect the world to produce the raw materials requirements for batteries to replace all these combustion cars?

    Vw, Toyota, BMW, Merc etc will be left, the rest will all be bought out, Tesla I said many years ago will be flogged off and I don’t see anything to change my mind on that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    The biggest fall in the EV market is in the likes of UK when people bought car and then went to drive a long distance and hit the issues with charging stations

    Ireland we don’t see a big issue because in reality we are a small country and small population, yet EV groups are full of people moaning about charging points

    I have used EV since 2016 FYI, so know all about them but I never use the public network

    Also the price of electricity has gone crazy, so you had someone in uk swapping from a diesel, getting into an EV, having to stop at charging point(if they found one working) and then paid more per mile than a diesel.

    Maybe that’s called people been antiEV but when you pay a premium to buy an electric car to then get screwed when topping up then of course people are upset



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Your post is just repeating all the usual social media tropes. You shuld do your own research.

    The cost of a topping up on a motorway is high. But vast majority of EV drivers only rarely doing it and then mostly not for a full charge. Tesla's get a cheaper rate anyway on their network.

    Because most people charge mostly at home or destination chargers they mostly aren't going to be effected by congestion at high speed motorway chargers.

    Public network is always expanding...

    "...the latest estimate from Electromaps is that there are 1,055 charging ‘stations’ across Ireland, most of which have at least two connection points, and many of which have more than that. The final tally for individual charging connectors is somewhere north of 2,500, thanks in part to a massive increase in the second quarter of 2023 that saw public charger installations grow by some 129 per cent - according to the EV Country Attractiveness Index (EVCA)...."

    The price of electricity hasn't gone crazy. They are just price gouging on the public high speed chargers on motorways etc.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,051 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Ah yes, the falling UK market. Sales in Jan '24 fell a whopping -21% AKA a year-on-year increase. I guess if we're going to believe in topsy turvy numbers we should highlight the whopping success of Diesel sales which increased by -10.1%. We should probably just stick a sneaky minus sign into statistic whenever we want to push a narrative where the numbers don't reflect whatever article the Murdoch press wants to push.

    It seems a number of people will just read a headline and not care what the actual numbers say.


    Post edited by liamog on


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    I don't think he said the UK market was failing, but that there was a failing to provide adequate infrastructure for the larger distances people had to travel. e.g. The issues that were highlighted in that Harry's Garage video.

    Not doubt that's improving all the time, like in Ireland and so the EV revolution will continue.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    In the UK and Ireland to a lesser extent there's an issue with fragmentation of payment gateways for the existing chargers. New ones have to take a credit card afaik so less of an issue. That was one of Harry's previous complaints.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,051 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Harry switched from an EV to a PHEV in August of 2020. PHEV drivers aren't as likely to have noticed the massive increase in rapid charging that the UK has seen since then. The numbers have nearly tripled and there a lot more DC charging sites with high numbers of CCS chargers


    You have Applegreen rolling out 16 CCS connectors at motorway services in places that previously had 1 or 2 Electric Highway chargers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    He's tested quite a few in the meanwhile. Took the ID3 to London for example.

    He's a long distance driver. For sure he gives a representation of what a normal Joe might experience first time out.

    But frequent long distance EV drivers usually have a preferred route and know the most reliable uncongested chargers in route.



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    That ID3 test was many moons ago though. Probably around 2020 or 2021.



  • Registered Users Posts: 211 ✭✭grumpygit


    LOL. Sometimes you just have to laugh

    https://youtu.be/YmVhhaOiJoM?si=xX0aNO4ldYuX_vkJ



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    i own an electric car, have one for years. just because someone isn’t totally positive on them doesn’t mean you need to go off on one

    Electric cars are great but they are just a car with electric as fuel. Throwing out comments about Murdock and reading the headline only adds nothing to the conversation.

    I have no problem recommending electric to people and a few of my friends and a lot of my family have moved to them since I took the plunge many moons ago, but I give them a full list of benefit and the disadvantages.

    FYI diesel was never as huge a percentage in the uk market as it was in Ireland and they started to dump their problem many moons ago into Ireland, which was one of the main benefits of shutting down the import trade(more or less) for a few years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    You could say you are just repeating the same social media tropes from electric car owners

    i do my own research 👍 the vast majority is fine in Ireland but not in uk when motorway driving and longer distances. Ireland is perfect for electric because in reality even a smaller battery will do most people because we are a small country, but then our market is small and most manufacturers see us as fairly irrelevant, like it or not.

    In terms of price gone crazy? Well my home bill would say different compared to a few years ago when I first bought electric. I think I was paying less than 0.05 cent per kWh at night but let’s take 0.05, now I’m on 0.17, that’s 183% increase

    Dont get me wrong it’s still cheaper to run the electric car but that’s a significant increase.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,051 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    When someone makes a statement like the below (which is a very common media trope at the moment) despite EV markets expanding year on year I call it out. Perhaps as @Dades mentioned, you meant to say biggest fail instead of fall.

    The biggest fall in the EV market is in the likes of UK when people bought car and then went to drive a long distance and hit the issues with charging stations

    The narrative of EV sales dropping/slowing when they are still increasing is a real pet peeve of mine.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Average mileage per year in UK is 7,400 miles per year. In Ireland it's 10,500 miles.

    I assume that's because the UK has better public transport and perhaps a higher % of population in cities and urban environments.

    For sure it's a bigger country and the opportunity for longer journeys are there. Statistically they don't though.

    You were talking about public charging prices. At the moment they are going up while domestic and wholesale prices are going down. That has nothing to do with energy prices over the last decade.

    You seem to arguing an EV is both more (and less) expensive than a diesel to run in the same breath/post. Will you be selling the EV to get a diesel?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,699 ✭✭✭beachhead


    ??????????????????????????????? You could be right.I see a lot of boy/girl racers in EVs and useless parkers



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    I already have a diesel

    Im having a discussion, not an argument

    In terms of electric I can see the benefit and also the disadvantages, you don’t have to be an all singing dancing member of the club. I can also see the benefits of diesel

    The point I made was the so called anti EV media is coming from a lot of people changing into EV for motorway driving in the UK and finding out the huge issues. So it’s customer stories, plenty of them on social media like TikTok of owners, not Murdock or whoever you want to fire out. These are not made up and is an issue.

    So yes a diesel for those drivers would be cheaper

    You said electricity hasn’t increased and everyone fill at home so it doesn’t matter, I gave an example to say it had and significantly.

    Again in pro EV which you seem to think I’m not and going on the attack.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Argument....a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory.

    "there is a strong argument for submitting a formal appeal"

    Motorway public EV charging prices are not following domestic prices...

    Personally I've never understood the argument that it's wholesale prices causing the issues that have to be passed on to the customer when wholesale prices are falling or there's lag in it. When the same company or parts of it are making huge profits. No lag in profits.

    If there's a surge back to diesel it will cost us...

    How many people get 100% of their diesel at motorway stops.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,051 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    I think most of is sensationalised to push a narrative, at this point the Sun must of contacted every single person who's in the adjustment period as they switch from petrol to EV.

    Unfortunately it's just not newsworthy when a person has a uneventful journey and charging experience.

    The anti ev articles generate clicks and are being pushed as part of culture war bs. Getting people who usually buy 5 year olds cars irate that in 16 years they'll be forced to buy one of these scary new EVs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Log into the main facebook page on electric cars and how many of the posts are complaining about charging point in Ireland? which is a tiny country and the range on most cars now is incredible compared to a few years ago

    You can complain about Sun, Murdock etc etc. Fact is even the most stance electric car owners spend a significant amoutn of time bit*hing about charging points

    The media see that and will auto create articles to get clicks. Also if you check the facbook page you see the same people promoting electric cars constantly sharing these articles and driving clicks to them.

    Best to ignore, less clicks means media iwll move on. Some people will say "diesel till I die" etc totally unaware that they have no choice and its up to what the manufacturer sells



  • Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭Gerrymandering reborn


    If it's sensationalised to push a narrative, people arent stupid to fall for it.


    Despite a few problems, there are still a lot of issues for mass EV adoption


    One of them is HUGE deprication


    Take for example this Taycan - https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202401175642059

    This is 170k new (not including overs) and has only done 60 miles and is going for 117k

    I know there is a new Taycan on the way but you will never see this kind of drop on a ICE vehicle



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,635 ✭✭✭✭ted1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    "...The publication found one owner who had been particularly burned by a waning appetite for the luxury SUVs. Bloomberg reports that Tim Coen spent £103,000 on a Range Rover Sport SVR in 2021. Three months ago, a car-trading website valued the SUV at £75,000, while it would now fetch just £45,000...."



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,511 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Might be also people who still use Facebook complain a lot.

    In fairness there a lot of very poorly maintained chargers and daft designed chargers and charging spots.



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