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What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Agreed.

    One thing that isn't clear to me though is would any potential asset seizures be limited to those located in New York State or could they seek to seize things like Mar-a-Lago or even Doonbeg here in Ireland for example?



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,585 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    Imagine his ego won't let him lose Trump towers.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,313 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    When you put it all like that in black and white, it's a pretty disastrous situation trump's in and you'd wonder if the Appeal has any chance of success. Cos if not, as you say, if he has to pay the fine he's doomed.

    And correct me if I'm wrong but the Presidency couldn't save him from this, right? He can't just forgive his debt on a whim?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Correct - This is a state level charge so he can't "pardon" his way out of it.

    Now - If an appeal case was still ongoing were he to win the Election then it would effectively go on hold for the 4 years he's in office but he can't stop it directly.

    That's not to say that he couldn't try to use the DOJ to remove or discredit Judges or AG's involved to try and help his appeal but he can't simply expunge the ruling directly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,304 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    Does anyone know, are there any legal roadblocks preventing an individual who is financially bankrupt from being President?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,691 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    I think this is part of the reason a court monitor was appointed to the Trump Org. It prevented any outside NY assets held by the Org from being either divested to non NY corporate structures or held apart from NY regulated structures.

    The entirety of the Trump Orgs assets are potentially at risk IMO. It's very important to note the value of Trump Orgs assets is very much predicated on commercial real estate values, which are tanking worldwide at the mo. The quickest path to paying the fines? Firesale!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,857 ✭✭✭Rawr


    I don't think there are any legal roadblocks if he ends up bankrupt. But fighting to hold onto what he's got left might provide a practical & time-management roadblock to be him being able to effectivly run a campaign or possibly win over enough independant / moderate voters.

    You also have the whole "successful tycoon" fiction Trump had built over the years and then reinforced with his appearance on The Apprenctice, which might have helped him in 2016. However this time we'v got a washed up flogger of gold shoes and gaudy NFTs who might end up spending his time screaming about how he has to liqudate his properties...and that doesn't really give that same vibe as in 2016. Makes him seem like a bit of a loser.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Fair enough..

    The valuations are where the problem lies.

    The value he has put on them is nonsense and like you say Commercial property values are tanking all over due to remote work etc.

    NY is holding up a bit better than most , but still not great.

    Add in the fact that most/all of his properties are already heavily mortgaged and that any large scale sale will absolutely be a fire sale of epic proportions , the chances of him being able to clear $600M+ from that aren't great at all.

    And any lender is going to know all of that so they will want EVERYTHING he has to be included in any bond deal to make sure they are covered.

    He's f*cked.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,056 ✭✭✭McFly85


    There are several stories out there about Trumps desperation to be perceived as a billionaire regardless of how true it is - so having his wealth dissected and publicised, even before everything is taken away from him, has got to be a massive blow to his ego.

    And I agree the only way this ends is with seizure of assets. Compliance with court rulings isn’t one of his strong suits so I can’t imagine him bothering to try and raise the cash in the first place, preferring to complain on social media about how this is all politically motivated. And that’s a look that’s really not going to play well with anyone except true believers.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    His entire sense of self is tied to the idea that he's a "Brilliant Billionaire Businessman".

    All you need to do is look at all the efforts he has expended over the years pumping up the valuations of everything to make sure he makes the Forbes Rich list to know how critically important that perception is to him.

    This ruling and its outcome, more than anything else, is the one that will hurt him the most.

    His lies and braggadocio over the years about his wealth have painted him into a corner. Just last year he claimed to have $400M+ in cash on hand along with his multi-billion dollar property portfolio.

    If that was actually true then the bond should be a simple thing to secure.

    But it isn't remotely close to true and over the next 30 days in the run up to the appeal/payment deadline, the whole house of cards he has built about how amazing and successful he is is going to come crashing down around him.

    Everyone knows he's full of sh!t about his wealth , but we are about to get absolute definitive proof of that and it will be the end of his ego.

    Forcing a narcissist to face their actual reality never goes well.

    The melt-down he will have will be unrecoverable.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 82 ✭✭gneel


    What would happen if Trump simply refused to pay? It seems like Alex Jones hasn't paid a cent yet either to the Sandy Hook parents. I get the impression that rich Americans just don't pay up when they don't want to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,954 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Alex Jones is a civil case similar to E Jean Carrolls and you can appeal and drag that out for quite a while, this fraud case was brought by the State of NY, if he refuses to pay they will just start seizing assets.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Exactly - They already have the auditor/controller in place.

    Once the 30 day deadline is past , they simply start seizing assets.

    The second the deadline passes , there will be bailiffs at every Trump owned property in NY changing locks and seizing control.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,584 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Jared got what, 6bn portfolio management from Saudi Arabia. Couldn't he, or the Saudis directly, simply bail him out?

    Given the massive tax breaks he gave last term, and will probably look to do again, coupled with the military budgets etc that he will have control over where he to win POTUS again, surely getting 500m from a few sources isn't that big of a deal.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    They could perhaps , but they also know that the optics of that would be appalling and likely terminally damage his election chances thereby making the value of the investment moot.

    Jared got huge money from the Saudis , but it's not "his" , it's still their money , he just gets to charge them hefty management fees etc.

    So him re-directing half a billion dollars of Saudi money to bail out Trump would be viewed horribly.

    It's not like Trump "selling" some property for 10x of its actual value to some Oligarch to hide the grift.

    Wherever the money comes from it will have to be completely transparent and that's the problem and why none of his usual ways he uses to dig himself out of a hole are realistic options.

    He has to find the money legitimately and he simply can't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,272 ✭✭✭✭duploelabs




  • Registered Users Posts: 28,346 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    And then there's Jared with billions, surely he would cough up? Ha!

    Trump really does have 'shot in the foot' syndrome, the reason the fines were so huge is that he has bigged-up his wealth and the court had to take account of that to make the fine effective.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭francois




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,584 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Why does it matter where he gets the money? He will lie about it and the GOP will back him 100% and any attempt to show where it came from will be laughed off as MSM deep state nonsense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,820 ✭✭✭TinyMuffin


    When you’re the AG you get away with that kind of thing. You can grab them by the assets.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,343 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    But Judge Jones has to approve any move by Trump business companies. A lot of people thought this case was a side issue in Trump's problems. Turns out to be central.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Exactly - It's the oversight and transparency requirements that make it almost impossible for him to get the money.

    No legitimate lender will give him the money and any "lender" with ulterior motives that might have been open to "owning" a potential President will not want the focus and attention that getting involved now would bring.

    And even if he could get it past Judge Jones , whilst MAGA-world would ignore or explain away him getting cash from some extremely dodgy source , the rest of the electorate will not.

    55% of ALL voters have said that a criminal conviction for Trump would mean they definitely would not vote for him. I suspect that similar numbers would hold the same view of Trump getting a half a billion dollars from the Saudis or whoever to pay off his court fines.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Saying "I don't know whether a certain man is a rapist" does not equate to saying "That certain man is not a rapist". I didn't say it would be OK if Trump was re-elected - regardless of whether the rape case was civil or criminal. As I said, I don't want him to be re-elected. However, none of us has the power to decided whether or not he becomes president again. So don't put words in my mouth!



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Simple question - Based on the information provided , do you now accept that this specific man , Donald J. Trump is in fact a Rapist ??



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Roald Dahl


    I wish I had your optimism, Quin_Dub.

    I would love nothing more than seeing a crew on a cherry picker taking down the TRUMP TOWER lettering and casually tossing the whole lot with a very loud crash into a big skip below, suffering the same ignominious fate as the decorative facade pieces he promised to preserve and donate to a museum, but ultimately fecklessly destroyed, while demolishing the building that stood there previously. I see this fondly in my mind's eye.

    But will it happen? There have been so many false dawns when it comes to Trump's undoing.

    Will he not lodge appeal after appeal after appeal to drag it out for years to come?

    Let us hope for a good outcome here!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Yes, I do. I must also add that the difference between civil law and criminal law cannot be dismissed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,375 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    You are denying it. You are refusing to accept the statement that Trump is a rapist \ withholding your acceptance.

    You are not denying it in the sense of rejecting it or declaring it as untrue, but you are denying it in this sense:

    2. to reject as falserefuse to accept or believe

    3. to withhold; refuse to give

    So I'm not putting words in your mouth.

    You're challenging the posters on the thread who are stating that he is a rapist, who are stating it because that was adjudicated in a court of law. What's the point of all your "questions" about civil v criminal, if you "don't know" about it?

    If you can't speak to it, then just say nothing.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 39,833 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    So a trump episode of “can’t pay. We’ll take it away.”



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Agree on the previous false dawns , but this feels different in terms of the scope and nature of the charges and also his ability to wriggle out of it.

    He can only appeal if he can find the money or get someone to back-stop him and given the attention and focus on everything and the oversight in place on his businesses the pathways out for him are incredibly narrow if they are there at all.

    Daddy can't walk into his casino and buy a few million dollars in chips and never use them, to help cover a balloon payment nor can some Oligarch buy a $5m dollar house for $30m in cash to give him a dig out.

    He has to find the guts of a half a billion dollars in the next 30 days and he has to find it in a very clean and transparent way as well.

    Trump hasn't had access to "clean and transparent" money in a couple of decades.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 82,392 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Trump still narcissistic about crowd sizes, apparently refused to get on stage with his cult whackos until they removed 300+ chairs from a hotel ballroom




This discussion has been closed.
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