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Leo Varadkar warns against increasing housing supply ‘too quickly’

  • 23-02-2024 11:58am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭WhiteMemento9


    Leo Varadkar has said he doesn’t want to repeat the Celtic Tiger era mistakes by ramping up housing supply “too quickly”.

    Varadkar warns against increasing housing supply ‘too quickly’ | Business Post

    This sounds like something Biden would say when they let him speak for too long. I don't care if the context is in relation to adhering to proper building regulation. You have to be completely tone deaf to be saying anything like this right now.



Comments

  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,938 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Mod:-

    Moving this over to Current Affairs/IMHO.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,462 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Also more housing means existing stock depreciates in value.. and no voter wants that!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,181 ✭✭✭Augme


    There's many obvious reason the party of landlords and property developers doesn't want housing supply to increase too quickly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭_Knight


    The estates being built now are of **** quality anyways.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,448 ✭✭✭dalyboy


    So is Leo admitting that the housing market is being controlled? What happened to a so called free market that FG are always bleating about.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭oohlalala


    I've been accused of "conspiracy theories" over the linking of mass migration, housing crises and eye watering amounts of money flowing through the two.

    Yet nearly every week there's clangers dropped like the above. "We don't want to build too much housing too quickly in a historic housing crisis"

    Despite contracts worth millions each being handed out like confetti in the asylum situation alone, nevermind touching on any other factor of the "artificial demand=€€€€€" at play for years.

    Dystopian levels of stupidity are required to believe this isn't all entirely manufactured.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,996 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Unless you're a renter or stuck at home because there's nowhere to rent or buy that is! (and yes, they vote too!)

    Grand if you're already a home owner who's pulled the ladder up after you, a landlord or investment firm, a builder, or entity renting property back to the State.

    Ah Leo Varadkar.. Truly the gift that keeps on giving! Not really a surprise though.. He was in Government when Noonan and Enda signed off on the sell off of huge amounts of Irish property and owed debt for a song to wealthy investment funds who then won again by renting the same property back to the State and those who can likewise afford the exorbitant rents!

    Can't be upsetting those groups. Feck the people who need a home!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,836 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I do.

    I would not mind a 20% fall in house prices.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,456 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Then less properties would be built making the problem worse.

    Leo has a point unless you want more compensation being paid out by the government for badly designed and/or built property.

    The real issue is they did away with the building bylaw inspections and put the decision to a person paid by the builder to confirm it was built correctly. Back in the day if a wall was built without inspection it could and would be ordered to come down and built with inspection. Now the surveyor can't make their client take down the wall and if they don't sign off they are fired



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,836 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    it's the other way around.

    Rising supply causes price growth to slow down

    We all want more supply, or we all should want more supply.

    New supply was 33k last year. That needs to be 45-50k or more.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,535 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    Leo thinks the world revolves around him. He can't or won't fix the problems in THIS country. He doesn't have any dependents. It's just a big game for him, where he is the star in his own head. He has no idea what people and their families are going through.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,351 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Why do you say

    "Grand if you're already a home owner who's pulled the ladder up after you,"

    I have seen you say this before elsewhere and it ruins posts that otherwise are good.

    Its such a bitter if not untrue thing to say.

    People may not be campaigning vociferously but the majority of people are not in favour of this current housing or rental crisis. Most people are just getting on with the nitty gritty if paying their mortgages and bringing up children.. Not rubbing their hands together gleefully thst others are finding it hard to get a house.

    Except for landlords and vulture funds, it is no benefit to society.

    Mist people I know it is top of their list in the next election as an issue that MUST be addressed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 222 ✭✭Murt2024


    He knows clearly what’s going on and to think different or that he doesn’t give a crap is nonsense.

    It’s common knowledge that Leo and the government wants house prices to remain high to avoid people going into negative equity and to build wealth in the country.

    If house prices drop to quick it could be an another disaster for this country.

    There building 20k short of what is actually needed to try and keep people happy but everyone knows why there doing it.

    The help to buy scheme and first home scheme is too keep the pricing of housing at large.

    Their job is to develop wealth in the country not land people in negative equity and they know well their sarcrificing a generation of people to do this, mainly 25-45 year olds



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,996 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    OK, let's review...

    • Homeowners will not be in favour of measures that reduce the value of their property, in part because we've made an essential item into an investment commodity and status symbol.
    • Homeowners regularly object to proposals for new apartments or other homes/developments in their area for spurious reasons (the NIMBY effect).
    • Many Homeowners (though not as many as there used to be), are also landlords who also have a vested interest in keeping supply controlled as it increases demand and thus return for their rental property.
    • Many Homeowners are only such because of the lax controls and "free money" of the Tiger years that allowed them to get on the "property ladder" and when it all went wrong, those same Homeowners were protected from rightful reposession because it was their "family home". Now that the requirements for entry are all that much harder it's very easy to pontificate about the problems.

    Now this doesn't apply to ALL Homeowners, but certainly a lot would find some or several truths in there if they are honest about it. It's not entirely their fault. The Government itself has actively supported this state of affairs for the last few decades as a means to enrich their supporters and hangers-on as well - not forgetting that many TDs (past and present) are landlords themselves as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Big on sound bites and grandstanding and paying lip service to problems….

    politicians are judged on what they DO… Leo has done very little to help or improve the lives of ordinary Irish citizens…. The majority of us were no better off in any way from his time as Taoiseach….

    he has great luck that great masses of his constituency all be not all..but a lot of it would be outside what would be know as traditional working class areas…. Castleknock, Ongar, Carpenterstown etc…. And the decisions being made or enabled won’t bite upper middle class Ireland as hard as it will and are for the rest of us….

    you can’t facilitate hundreds of thousands of people coming here and still provide adequate housing to irish people…

    ” a challenge “ in Leo’s disingenuous lexicon…

    “ a disaster “ in our own more truthful upfront explanation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭oohlalala


    I've said it before and I'll say it again: you cannot outbuild an incentivised, artificial crisis.

    If 200k extra homes appeared overnight, you can bet your last euro they'd be filled and bought before the year is out, then back to square one.

    If the supply of housing increases 5 fold per year, expect concomitant rise in migration to outstrip it.


    It's not a bug in the housing crisis, it's a feature.



  • Registered Users Posts: 900 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    Yeah, let's go back to a massive construction sector, what could go wrong? 100% mortgages too. Also, why not throw a few cars and some furniture on to the mortgage? Sure, 15 years ago never happened and if it does happen again, we'll just blame the government for giving us exactly what we asked for.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,535 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    We will have very valuable houses, but no money to wipe our arses. 😁



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,147 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    SF will be loving these comments.



  • Registered Users Posts: 737 ✭✭✭foxsake


    they are shitholes , forcing more units into less space and poor quality.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,462 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    and that 66% of voters are homeowners which is their primary wealth asset. Hence the Govt plays to their tune.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,351 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Again this is not " many" as you say, but " some".

    I have a few Manies for you..

    Many homeowners view their houses not as investments but as " Homes" controversially, where they live and rear their families.

    Many have young adults living with them who are unable in this market to move out and even rent their own places despite working in well paying jobs

    Many have family members moving back with young families again because of the housing supply issue.

    Many cannot trade down /downsize to give cash to their trapped children for deposits or fund their retirement because newer homes cost so much more.

    Funny how you don't mention any of the reasons above when "pontificating" yourself, unless it suits your agenda.

    There is no sense in this housing market but blaming the wrong people as usual, does not improve your argument.



  • Registered Users Posts: 679 ✭✭✭Esho


    Never subscribed to conspiracy theories, but thinking of taking a course in tinfoil origami for amateur milliners now

    It's taken arson and showers of semi criminal sobghites to get the government to admit the immigration rules are broken. And people who are sick of seeing their services eroded too, but they are not considered by our decision makers.

    And now this, where house prices are never so high, a whole young generation are living with their folks, and it's not possible to rent unless you work for Google.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,868 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    His party stood over one of the worst housing, rent and homeless (as well as health) crises in our states history. In 2020 the electorate put his party and the party that started it all into power together

    I think he can say whatever he likes in the knowledge that he will stay in power after the 2024/5 election so meh



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 197 ✭✭taratee


    Have Leo and MLM been spending time together lately? Both of them have come out with some very strange comments on the topic of housing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,456 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    You find somebody willing to invest money in property development when prices drop by 20% like you want. It happened before and that is how we got where we are. No investment will go into building if it seen as a risk.

    What everyone needs is stable prices so investment and construction continue to increase supply to reduce prices long term.

    Do you thing it is a good idea to let bad construction come into the market? That is the danger if construction happens too quickly and there is plenty of evidence



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,083 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...again, thankfully another credit fueled bubble is simply not possible, as we ve implemented more robust regulations into all our financial sector entities including shadow banking, pension and investment funds etc, thankfully none of these entities are now over leveraged, and of course with new personal lending rules, another 08 situation simply cannot occur!



  • Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭L.Ball


    He's right for the wrong reasons. Given the absolutely appalling quality of new builds towards the end of the Celtic Tiger, rushing houses to market will only result in shoddy builds up and down the country.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,798 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Article is paywalled.

    But the essence of what he is saying is true.

    People are back hyperventilating again about our housing market.

    It wasn't long ago when we were bulldozing estates.

    We need to stop the fúcking nonsense and feeding frenzies that come with it.

    A lot of people came out of Covid cash rich in a position to buy, certain members of the "property porn press" started stoking again which led to a charge and inflated prices.

    Incidental landlords from the Celtic Tiger dumped their properties which were snapped up by this ready to go buyer at pace.

    We are now at record amount of housing starts and well on the way to flooding the market again.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,836 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    We built 33k new last year.

    The peak was 93k.

    We are still miles below the previous peak.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Leo basically saying that if your someone who needs to go on daft.ie to find somewhere to rent he has no interest in trying to end your living hell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,331 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Anyone who actually reads the article will see that he says his concern is we’d ramp up construction too quickly and build quality would suffer, as happened pre-2008

    Nothing to do with propping up the market.

    But no one ever reads the articles



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,022 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    You'd think the population would have learned by now what happens when too many houses are being built and demand suddenly dries up. We'd end up in the exact same crisis that destroyed a lot of lives in this country in 2010.

    The housing issues today over a decade later are inextricably linked to that crisis as well.

    We need more houses but it needs to be watched carefully.



  • Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭oohlalala


    Funny how he doesn't have similar concerns about pumping the population.

    "We have to be careful about increasing the population from abroad too quickly for fear it might create a housing crisis"

    Can you imagine?



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    “When I first became taoiseach in 2017, we were only building 14,000 or 20,000 houses a year. That’s up to 30, and we need to keep building more and more,” he said.

    He said he didn’t want a “repeat of the Celtic Tiger” when housing supply was ramped up “too quickly and half of them weren’t built properly”.

    “We’re ramping it up as quickly as we can. There are shortages of skills, there are shortages of materials sometimes, but I do think we’re getting there.”

    This is just a stunningly uncontroversial statement. Though it does highlight how everything politicians say is taken out of context for headlines.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    "Demand suddenly dries up"... i think you'll find that about as likely to happen as Israel and Palestinian living in peace



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,996 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    But surely with all the new building regulations and planning requirements, such things couldn't happen again? Hasn't that been part of the reason given for the shortage - it wasn't economic to build because of the higher standards/requirements.


    Leo wouldn't be suggesting that nothing was learned from the Tiger years would he?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It could be argued he is simply saying he doesn't want the pressure on house building to result in neglect of those requirements.

    The lack of building has never been economic though, developers are more than happy to build. We are hamstringing them with objections and idiotic planning processes over and over again. So equally I'd disagree with Varadkar that we are ramping up as quickly as we can.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    How would a home owner go about pulling the ladder up behind them? Is that a Stira or some other means?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    I don't think that penny drops with homeowners until their kids start to leave and they realise how nuts things are.

    I'm 48 and when I was in my mid 20 looking to buy a house around Clonmel/Dungarvan/Clonmel there was endless choice.

    Now in the Clonmel area, as an example, there is next to no private housing being built. Two estates in Fethard are entirely or majority council/social and the one 13 house private estate was bought by a one well known wealthy individual. An estate by railway station in Clonmel, 10 houses off Cashel road, and significant proportion of houses in Glenconor are all social or council.

    Young couples are now buying old stock in need of major work/sh1ty areas, and they are the lucky one.

    It's a long way from free market when public purse one way or other is buying most of the new stock.





  • Does he have the same warning for population growth?

    Too many vested interests in this country.



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