Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

The Irish times hits the streets of Bundoran, somehow only bumping into Irish hoteliers and Ukranians who say everything is just great (the bumping into Ukrainians bit is a tad more likely to be fair ). The town is flying , sewerage system is great , the schools are full (only presented as a good thing ) and they can handle any amount of people and sure we need the workers. 😂

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2024/02/24/from-war-torn-kharkiv-to-surfing-in-bundoran-how-one-town-is-managing-a-new-ukrainian-population/

What needs to be realised is that these (supposed) "obligations" are not intended to be a suicide pact.

We've already accepted over 100,000 new arrivals in the space of the last 2 years. We've put them up in hotels, nursing homes, fields, and pretty much anywhere the Department could get its hands on - still more keep arriving and many of these from places with no direct route to Ireland or from/via other European countries or the UK.

Most of these aren't refugees fleeing persecution. They're economic migrants seeking a better life. Now, there's nothing wrong with that HOWEVER there's a massive difference between an educated, skilled migrant coming with the ability to support themselves from the start, and someone arriving under false pretenses in search of handouts.

The first group are always welcome and will be an asset. They'll also be pretty much self-sufficient and contributing from the start. The latter group will always be a drain (financially and otherwise) unless we also invest significant efforts in upskilling and integrating them. This is on top of the costs of the State housing them, feeding them, and giving them a range of other benefits and "freebies".

You can keep claiming that there's obligations and no way to stop them coming , but there absolutely is! In the short-medium term we could..

- Cut the benefits package dramatically for not just the newly arriving Ukrainians but all who don't fit the first type of migrants above to reduce the "pull factor" (though why Ukrainians are still arriving 2 years later - and skipping over the rest of Europe in the process - is somewhat of a mystery given that the conflict still remains largely confined to a proportionally limited area of a vast country and indeed Ukraine has regained or fought the Russians to a standstill in several of the affected areas :

- Refuse entry to anyone who can't produce valid and verifiable documents at the point of entry, or those who arrive illegally in the back of a container (from generally another safe country, France). Send them back to wherever they embarked from.

- Deport any non-EU migrant who is convicted of a serious crime in this country to wherever they came from (originally or via). It's nonsense that not only should we suffer the consequences of their criminality or violence, but then have to pay to imprison them too. Similarly, eliminate the endless appeal mechanisms that delay decisions on eligibility or deportation. They should be entitled to ONE appeal and if that fails, back where they came from with an escort to the airport by Immigration officers or Gardai.

- Use our supposedly strong relationship and influence within the EU (or even just exercise our existing opt-outs) to further limit the numbers arriving. In the worst case, Ireland should simply refuse to accept any more entirely. Let the EU threaten their fines and bluster in the media all they like - it's not a dictatorship and we're supposedly partners not vassals. Let's put the issue right back where it started... On the floor of the Commission.

- Longer term then we could reform our immigration rules and resources therein to further support the basis that legitimate migrants and refugees will always be welcome - but in sustainable numbers, and where decisions on their eligibility need to be made, that the staff and resources are there to make these quickly

What's missing is the political will to enforce and explore these options. Instead we have a bunch of weak, self-serving EU sycophants across the main parties, and an array of opportunists posing as NGOs hanging on and making a fortune from all this.

Meanwhile the integrity of the country is falling apart the longer it goes on. The social contract between the Government and the Irish people has been damaged. Our interests and needs have been subordinated to the needs of randomers with a sad story, or outright chancers looking for handouts.

You (and others - both on this thread, in the media and in the NGOs and Government itself) keep trying to confuse these latter types with the first type of migrant to make your case, but the two are not comparable at all, and everyone can see through it - I say everyone because even the advocates aren't so blind as to not see what's happening (the issues are reported daily at this stage after all), but for the aforementioned self-interested reasons, are wilfully trying to ignore and deflect from it.

So there are absolutely things we can and need to do to address these issues both in the immediate and longer term. We just need to demand it from the politicians by making our views known through engagement with them, peaceful protest, and asking their positions on these issues when the upcoming elections have them out canvassing for our support.

This is OUR country and it'll be our people and children who have to face the consequences of these decisions - or our own inaction, and I for one am far more concerned about that than the opinions of a biased media, weak politicians who've failed dramatically in most areas over the last decade (for all the headlines of how wealthy and successful we are, are we ACTUALLY in a better place than we were say 5 years ago?), or a group of EU bureaucrats who certainly aren't concerned about Ireland’s interests in the first place.

We just need to stand up and say enough is enough! No one else is going to do it for us.

No we dont just like any other European country can stop it. Stop with the bs.

It's like talking to a spoilt child." I want more. No you can't. Stomps foot. I want more. Ya cant have more you have enough." Total tantrum.

Ireland has gone above and beyond it obligations. Time to reign it in big time.

Well over 50% of medical students in Ireland are international students. Ireland has a Small number of college places. So not many Irish born doctors graduate. Of those a % go abroad to gain more medical experience in larger population countries. Most come back after a few years. There’s just not that many of them to start with.

Of course it doesn't make poor people poorer. People on social welfare or low incomes are provided with HAP and affordable housing.

But yes, current policies like no rent freezes and a deliberate policy not to increase the supply of houses are clearly a huge problem and a massive reason rents and houses is a major issue. Not foreigners though.

Stop with the lies. Foreigners with skills and ability are not welcome here. Ireland is full, we are at capacity. We have issues with our health service, issues with accommodation, issues with education. How can one say all this when it comes to asylum seekers and yet turn around and say we're not full to foreigners with skills and a visa? Either we are full, or we aren't.

People (of whatever nationality) who arrive here who are skilled, financially independent and willing to work will always find accommodation and employment opportunities in a bouyant economy, although they will struggle with accommodation, it is available if you have deep pockets. Unskilled migrants who fetch up with nothing will find Ireland is full, if they are not financially independent and in a position to pay for their own accommodation. It really is that simple. Irish 3rd level students are commuting long distances to college because they can't afford the accommodation costs, or more likely there simply isn't enough accommodation available. I'd put the needs of these Irish students ahead of any of the chancers that are gaming the system currently. Ireland needs to put its own citizens first. Comparisons with the Irish emigrant of 50 years ago are ridiculous, nothing was handed on a plate to anybody who left these shores then.

Not always true, I'm fortunate enough to have private insurance but no private hospital will see me for my illnesses, I'm always sent to public A&E, where you are lucky now if you get a seat in the waiting room due to capacity issues.

This can only be linked to an increase in demand driven by a massive increase in population. Also, it's impossible to get a same day GP appointment in most of Dublin.

Those of non EU nationality will seek asylum .

People will accommodation but people won't find accommodation unless rich. Which is it? As for deep pockets, how deep do you think as care assistants pockets are for example?

So do you think we should get rid of foreign students as well, or should they not be provided with accommodation from colleges? If we are going to take the approach of putting own citizens first. How many of asylum seekers are staying taking up space in student accommodation anyway? Given that rule is that student accommodation must be empty for a year before it can be housed to house asylum seekers I fail to see how significant that impact can be.

The only support I got was an A4 sheet of commonly used words in Ukrainian/English and that was it, get on with it. The government praised themselves for the support they were offering, I got no support. As a mainstream teacher my classes increased in size with no help. There are also more and more Irish students with additional needs. In my school the extra teachers provided are teaching EAL to small groups or some classes have team teachers where there are 2 teachers in the room, one lead teacher and one who offers help to students. These are also of very little support to me as they are not teachers in my subject area so really they are just another set of eyes in the classroom. I still have massive classes and a massive workload with hours each night or preparation and corrections. I am taking early retirement, not because I don't want to teach 'foreign' students but because I have worked myself to the bone trying to do so.

Nobody has a veto over who lives beside them.

Nope. Closer to 1000 people. Strangely the current TD for the area, Ryan, from SF is vocal about it. She is from Athy, nowhere near this place and there hasn't been a peep out of her all this time until SF said she won't be running next election for them.

Please stop repeating this discredited idea. It is patently clear that in real life citizens have a powerful influence on what happens as regards neighbours and in their communities. In more normal times, it's called the planning system. When government tries to override the planning system, local public objections come into play. Sometimes it's a matter of those with money and influence.