Transgender man wins women's 100 yd and 400 yd freestyle races.

You're right. It's not worrying from the point of view of men who want to abuse or displace women from public spaces. It's most encouraging for those people. So the poster definitely overstated things. There are some points of view from which it's positively delightful to see women pushed aside by males like that.

Nothing alarmist about it.

I'd have to seriously question to motives of anyone who thinks it's totally okay for biological men to compete against biological women in 100 and 400 yrd races. Wouldn't you?

What do you question about their motives? 400 yard race isn’t exactly a contact sport, it’s all just a bit of fun.

Which branch of science backs up your claim? I won't do the same to you as you tried to do to me and limit your options; there's many to choose from. Knock yourself out:

It's not 'somehow' I don't agree with your claim, you're well aware of the reasons why I don't agree with your claim, the main one being it lacks specificity. For example in claiming that 'permitting biological males to compete against biological females, it would lead to the detriment of women's sports', have you considered the factors which influence either the decline or the growth of women's sports and the changes that are happening all the time? You can't possibly have accounted for all factors, I don't care how large your data sets are that you're feeding into a data modelling tool of some sort (I'm assuming that's what you're using to make such a lofty prediction that you claim is backed by science, because if you're not, then your claim really IS based upon nothing more than hearsay, feelings and opinions). I'm assuming you're also familiar with a popular acronym in data modelling.

I'm assuming you've considered factors such as UK Athletics giving two fingers to World Athletics making athletes who previously would have qualified under the old system, like Lina Nielsen, 'feel like the shíttiest athletes in the world'? I'm sure you've also considered how the IOC has given the British Olympic Association a right kick in the stones because of UK Government's attempted muscle flexing? Because if you haven't... y'know... look I could go on giving numerous examples as to why your claims of a system with so many constantly moving parts in it would be a fcuking nightmare for any team of data scientists to even be able to try and make predictions. That's not to say they couldn't, their predictions just wouldn't be reliable and wouldn't stand up to even the most basic scrutiny (article is in a business context, but applies equally to big data in science), and if being unable to force other people to speak the same language as you do is an issue, like rolling your eyes when people use terms like 'trans' and 'cis'? I feel you, I really, really do!

Contrary to your belief, the discussion, or this discussion at least, started with an incitement to moral panic - one individual athlete blowing raspberries at the boys. Seems unnecessary IMO, but what you gonna do? I wouldn't panic over it anyway, because I'd know that using a single anecdote as supporting evidence of anything, just doesn't amount to shít. Certainly not anything that could possibly be worthy of consideration as credible scientific evidence in support of any argument one way or the other. I can't read minds, but I'm assuming the reason the thread is on life support is because when a thread of this nature is closed, at least two more spring up in its place to complain that we can't talk about it.

You say you have no idea how I could equate your claim to moral panic, and at this point I don't think you will see it, while claiming you also have no idea why some posts on this thread have a habit of skirting around the issue, not dealing with the facts and generally being obtuse, and you have no idea why. Here's why -

Your claim: permitting biological males to compete against biological females would lead to the detriment of women's sports

What is commonly understood as the definition of 'moral panic':

A moral panic is a widespread feeling of fear, often an irrational one, that some evil person or thing threatens the values, interests, or well-being of a community or society. It is "the process of arousing social concern over an issue", usually perpetuated by moral entrepreneurs and mass media coverage, and exacerbated by politicians and lawmakers. Moral panic can give rise to new laws aimed at controlling the community.

How many transgender athlete restrictions in the US do you reckon were introduced since 2020 to protect women's sports from detriment? I like to look at the pictures:

You're unlikely to see any post on the thread which would even care to refute your NEW claim that biological males should not be competing with biological females in the womens 100 yd and 400 yd free style races. It's similarly based upon nothing more than your own gut, well, speaking of, I know at least one man who is unlikely to be competing in the women's 100 yd and 400 yd free style races any time soon. You have to love his sense of humour:

“I was just trying to survive. It was my inspiration was to survive,” he admitted, saying coming out the other side “still alive” and “still kicking” is the only motivation he needed.

To take up another standpoint is worrying from any point of view.

Given your position, it's understandable why you would only see the issues involved from your perspective as worrying. However, that in and of itself, is no reason for anyone to go losing their minds (or their livelihoods) over the issues as you see them, from your perspective.

Have you abandoned your claims (made in usual roundaboutery whatabouts) that there are no differences in ability between male and female athletes and moved onto pressing into moral panics and reduced impact due to low numbers?

(thus it's fine for me to enter my car into the 100m sprint, any gender, as there is only one of them :) and it is fair because of it).

I see that you haven’t abandoned attempting to attribute positions to me that I’ve never held.

You can’t attribute pressing into moral panics to me either, I wasn’t the poster who brought them up. I did attempt to give a more relatable example by way of explanation -

I know you don’t like anecdotes so I won’t do it to you, but if your car is a Nissan 350Z, I’ll see what I can do:

It's also not uncommon to see the 350Z on the track or the drag strip, again, the capable large engine makes the 350Z a great base as an entry level track or drag machine. Of course, you could always use the 350Z as Nissan intended, by utilizing it as a great long distance cruiser.

https://www.hotcars.com/why-the-nissan-350z-is-awesome/#versatility

The design and engineering teams knew, they knew… ‘long distance cruiser’ my arse! 😏

EDIT: I just found out it was known as the ‘Fairlady Z’ in Japan! It’s a sign astro! 😂

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_350Z

I’m not one you need to ask that, that wasn’t my doing?

To be fair, it seems somewhat of a contradiction to observe cognitive dissonance in others, as though you are blind to your own! 😳

However, on the basis of good faith that it is a genuine question, the answer couldn’t be more simple as to why classifications in sports competitions exist - for the purposes of classification. The organisers of the competition are generally tasked with determining classification, though they can be overruled by a higher authority.

A good example of this was the case of the competition in Canada where the parents objected to the participation of one competitor on the basis that they felt it made for unfair competition or threatened the safety of their children, and some wondered how it was possible. I’m certain whatever else was obscured from their view, the terms and conditions determining eligibility, weren’t -

The organization explained that athletes are seeded by entry time, regardless of their age,

It also said that access to changing rooms “is determined by facility/municipality policies in accordance with applicable law.”

“Swimming Canada and Swim Ontario believe swimming is for everyone … people of all shapes, sizes, genders, beliefs and background should have the opportunity to swim to the best of their ability … with the expectation that our registrants treat each other with respect and dignity, and keep our sport environment free from harassment and abuse.”

https://nypost.com/2023/12/15/news/50-year-old-transgender-woman-shared-pool-locker-room-with-young-girls-at-race/amp/

Another example is that of Vanessa-Mae who can claim the title of Olympian (you may remember her from her early chart topping success in the 2000’s? I do! 😂), FIS had to issue her with an apology after banning her from competitions which they sanctioned. Ms. Vanakorn was never going to let FIS off the hook so lightly with a meaningless apology -

Despite Vanessa-Mae's successful result in nullifying the FIS race ban at the CAS appeal, there was still some doubt over the status of her races at the 2014 Winter Olympics. However, in January 2016 the media announced that the International Olympic Committee had confirmed that Vanessa-Mae could be called an Olympian.

In 2016, Vanessa-Mae settled her defamation lawsuit against the FIS, in which the FIS made an "appropriate payment", the amount of which was not disclosed. The FIS issued a full apology for its claims of race-fixing, and stated "Ms. Vanakorn and her entourage did not in any way fix, contrive or improperly influence the result, progress, conduct or any other aspect of the FIS-approved races."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanessa-Mae

So back to my questions why do they have categories in the 100 yd and 400 yd races for men and women if its just a bit of fun?

Why have categores any sports if they are "just a bit of fun"?

So classifications exist for the purposes of classification?

Talk about circular definitions.

Skirting around the actual reasons for classifications in sport. It's commical stuff.

You're suggesting I am having cognitive dissonance issues and then provide a definistion/rational like you have above......

Well, yeah, like cis woman etc.

They never claimed to be providing you a 'definition.' Talk about strawman arguments.

Why have classification in sport, be it gender, age, weight, ability etc if "it's just a bit of fun"?

A simple question - avoided.

I've asked why there are male and female categorisations in the events, when someone makes the claim that the events are "just a bit of fun".

I've further asked why categories exist in any event at all? Answers haven't been provided because the answers, I suspect, would erode the position of those that think it perfectly fine for biological males to compete with biological females in all sports.

I don't know for sure though as all I've gotten so far is a circular piece of logic and an avoidance of an answer. I am genuinely interest to know where your standpoint is on this area.

These are core items to discuss in topics such as this - yet are avoided or obfuscated at every turn.

Thank you for admitting that's what you've been getting at, a tangent.