Why wont die hard GAA fans admit football these days is muck?

well as far as I am concerned, suggesting that the only thing sports teams are interested in is winning is rubbish.

Heard Bernard Jackman on the radio this morning.... he was honest, said rugby had some issues which annoyed spectators

and took from the game.

Im basically saying the same, Gaelic football has some issues which take from the overall game, go fix them.

Be honest and stop bull dusting folks.

Breakin' my nuts here...

I think reducing the numbers of players is the main thing that would help. There is no space anymore.

That's a great point. I was at a lot of game last year, and I found most of them enthralling. Actually, I though the whole championship last year was really good. More games for the fans, and there were many really good games from what I saw anyway. The last round of the group matches was brilliant - coming down to the wire as to who would go through or who would be knocked out at that point. The handpassing parts of the game didn't put me up or down.

Going to the Dublin Kerry match tomorrow evening. And really looking forward to it. Even if it is draggy, and there are defensive moments, I know that there will also be moments in the game that are exciting, and there will be lots of skill involved. That is enough to keep me happy. And of course, a couple of pints on a cold Saturday evening in Croke Park.

I guess what I am trying to say is that yes, there are some dull games (as there are in every sport). But it is not all doom and gloom. THere are many many good matches and skills in matches.

A year ago when you started this thread you described football as being muck. What would you call it now?

They would have to come as deep as they can or they will never see the ball.

I'm curious how they plan to define who the restricted players are? By number on the back? What about subs then, they have different numbers?

And if my full back is getting roasted and I want to swap a quicker player from half back into the full back line, how does the ref know who is actually the designated full back? And if they can swap then why not just swap on the fly as and when they feel like it

Whats the penalty for a restricted player moving out of their 45? If a defender steps over the line is it a free in from the 45? Does it only count when they have the ball or can they be penalised for making runs outside the 45?

Is a defender going to get penalised for making a heroic interception of the ball that starts inside the area but ends a foot outside it? That means they can no longer defend from the front.

I'm not for it nor against it at this stage, but there are plenty of unintended consequences that they would want to spend a bit of time thinking through.

It's not as easy to count the handpasses at a live game. The advantage of watching on TV is that the cameras bring the ball close to the viewer, making it easier to count the handpasses.

Could give it a try and see if works I suppose, what it comes down to is are the players able to create space and movement. The peak Dublin side was great at this no matter how many players were back from the opposition (see Dublin v Tyrone AI Semi-Final 2017) a mixture of all arts of the game.

But to do that you have to have highly skilled, intelligent pacey, players to break the defensive line for a scoring chance.

Forcing forwards to stay up could work in theory, making the game easier for lesser teams. But in such scenarios/rules a much stronger team could really annihilate a weaker side.

Dublin v Louth for example could end up being 40 plus points IMO, as Louth would have no way of easily keeping the score down. Good as Sam Mulroy is for Louth (probably the best unheralded player in the country IMO) Louth scores would not dramatically increase. From what I remember of the game Louth's main weakness was their keeper, very poor in distribution and kick outs. If a weak team consistently loses possession they are screwed.

Looking at the first period of the Dublin v Louth Leinster Final match. Louth played cagey/keep ball with Mulroy as the "out ball" Louth kept the score way down early on in the first half. It remained a contest far longer than many expected it to. 15 minutes gone it was 3 each. Louth were working really hard pressing and keeping the ball from what I remember. It surprised Dublin I think.

Just before the half hour mark Louth were just about hanging on there was 10 in it

By the half hour Dublin had scored 1-9 without reply

Even though Louth went 20 minutes without scoring.

At Half Time there was 9 points in it. 1-12 to 0-6 for Dublin.

By the 40th minute Louth got within 7 of Dublin

63 minutes gone Dublin were 15 points up

Full time score Dublin 5-21 Louth 0-15 - Dublin win by a margin of 21 points

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Now if Wooly Parkinson's proposed rules came it in would mean even more space for the Dublin forwards, Louth would have even less respite. And I would guess that even this Dublin team could get close to a 40 point win as the forwards would have so much space from start to finish.

The game could be over in 10 minutes even before Louth invariably tire from having to work harder, and the stronger Dublin subs.

There would be massacre's in games where much stronger teams face much weaker ones - records broken all over the shop.

Wooly's rules would work better where the teams are of nearer standard I think. The league? But the championship is not set up like that.

Only way to change any sport really.

I think it is mentality thing if you are less open minded to an evolving game, you would go into a football expecting it to be "muck" looking for any signs that would confirm it even for a minute or so.

The reality is 12 years ago, McGuinness had already shook and confused the Gaelic Football world by winning Sam in 2012 with a counter attacking defensive style. Which borrowed a bit from basketball and rugby league. It was a style which destroyed Dublin in the 2014 Champioship and forced Jim Gavin and Dublin football (football itself) to evolve.

I honestly think the "most people" who you claim find football boring -

1) Don't like evolution

2) Follow weak counties who do not have the skill/game intelligent to adapt to the changing landscape

3) Are looking at football through rose tinted glasses

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I used to go to the All-Ireland club championship finals a lot when it was held on St Patricks Day (Especially If the weather was reasonable)

But there were some poor finals going a good bit back when I think of it.

St Gall's (Antrim) v Kilmurray (Clare) in 2010 - 0-13 to 1-05

After the initial flurry from Kilmurray early on (they got a goal) after were unable to break the Antrim men down while they tapped over points with no pressure on them - game over as a contest at 34 minutes. St Gall's was not pressed or pushed up at all. It was not really in vogue then.

In 1999 Balina lost to Crossmaglen Rangers 0-9 -0-8

(article from 2004)

"IT was one of the worst of Mayo's many modern Croke Park calamities. St. Patrick's Day 1999 was freakishly hot and more than 40,000 spectators were present to witness a shocking football meltdown as Ballina Stephenites gifted an All-Ireland title to Crossmaglen Rangers.

Five points up after 20 minutes, Ballina owned possession, but then the wides started to flow, each one a spur to the Armagh team who levelled the game eight points apiece in the final minutes and kicked the winner with time almost up. Ballina had time for one more attack but all it yielded was the 16th and final wide.-

That was on a hot sunny day! 17 scores between both sides!

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If you look at Corofin's unprecedented period of dominance in club football, their dominance was built on keep ball, and direct quick passing "running game". Players who were aware and showed movement.

See the 2019 final Corofin v Dr Crokes 2019 - Corofin win 2-16 to 0-10

Hmmmm……. Jarlath Burns doesn’t seem to agree with your rose tinted view of things.

Listen back to Drivetime RTE 1 Radio…… lad seems to agree with my view on things.

Rules change committee under J Gavin coming up. Hand pass came up as a specific item.

Unlike yourself though, he might have a few ideas.

Or do you think Jim and Jarlath will just say "The issue is the handpass lads" repeatedly

No, but they might say “We have an issue with the handpass lads, what did the fella Bendar say on Boards…37 passes around the 40 metre area and not a shot fired ..can’t have that surely”