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Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

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    #15362
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820355#Comment_121820355

    A poll is useful to gauge public opinion, but dont jump to the conclusion that it will change anything.

    As mentioned before, if no major party offers any form of immigration restriction, dont expect to see a change in policy from the govt, or any prospective govt.



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    #15363
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users Posts: 13,004 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820374#Comment_121820374

    Question for you?

    Is that what you would like to see... A political party that offers restrictions on immigration?

    Reason why I ask is I have seen this sort of post from you before and would like you to clarify your position, if you can please?

    It is confusing that you appear to be pro immigration but are emphasising that fact.



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    #15364
    Emblematic
    Registered Users Posts: 891 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121818881#Comment_121818881

    You say, stretched but not full. At what point would "full" be the most appropriate word in your opinion? It must be less than 100,000, as you say we would not be able to take that number.



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    #15365
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820491#Comment_121820491

    I agree with this.

    Can you clarify please @BlueSkyDreams as you appear to be constantly sending out conflicting messages.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #15366
    Augme
    Registered Users Posts: 5,716 ✭✭✭Augme


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820458#Comment_121820458

    I do think a big problem is assuming that 84% all want the same thing. I have negative comments on immigration - having 1,000 people sleeping on tents is a disgrace and they should all be provided with proper accommodation. I'm not in "send them home" and "this is an planation" camp though.


    In a previous poll the Irish Times asked what percentage of people would vote for a candidate who shared strong anti immigrstion views and only 30% said they would be more likely to vote for that candidate. The complete lack of emergence of a party that proposes strong anti-immigration views is the most striking thing for me.



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    #15367
    tom23
    Registered Users Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭tom23


    Seriously? Because they don’t have a reply that tally’s with your exact view of the world they have clarify? Mother of jaysus… i’ve read it all now.



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    #15368
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820629#Comment_121820629

    I think it would be a good thing to get Clarity on what exactly that means. There's interpretation here about what exactly the 84% means. I am not sure I agree with the interpretation here and think it would be welcome to clarify.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #15369
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820491#Comment_121820491

    Thanks Goldengirl.

    I am certainly pro-immigration, but the point i am trying to make is that regardless of a persons stance on immigration, if no major political party is supporting a change in policy on that front, then no change in govt approach is likley to occur.

    Regardless of which way the wind is blowing in the polls.

    So those that rejoice in the polls reflecting a predictable swing against immigration, shouldnt celebrate a change occuring too hastily.



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    #15370
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820613#Comment_121820613

    No problem Anna.

    I replied to GGs original post.



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    #15371
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users Posts: 13,004 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820690#Comment_121820690
    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820658#Comment_121820658

    Fair enough.

    To be honest Anna, maybe @tom 23 needs to clarify?

    Who are ya talking to, tom?

    Its hard to know really..

    Never a quoted post, just random comments?



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    #15372
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820458#Comment_121820458

    You are missing the point.

    If all 3 electable parties have a pro immigration stance, then the polls can read 100% against the current immigration stance.

    It still doesnt mean there will be a change in policy, simply because there is no political threat to govt policy.

    No party is offering an alternative approach so the point has no real bearing on govt formation.



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    #15373
    tom23
    Registered Users Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭tom23


    The referendum, local and european elections will tell the story of where the current Government parties policies will be if they loose and do badly in the elections. In fact of the three political parties in power I can see Fianna Fáil taking a tough stance on immigration because these are in for a shellacking of the electorate. They will change their stance very quickly because they are good a smelling what way they wind blows. The greens are gone. Good riddance. FG will struggle (they too might get tougher again and add more countries to their safe list).

    At some rate the pro immigration can only go on for a period of time before the house comes crashing down because we Irish are good at that.



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    #15374
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,871 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820721#Comment_121820721

    The most important upcoming election regarding immigration to Ireland is not the general election but the US presidential election on November 5th. A victory for Biden or another Democrat and our current immigration policy goes on for the next four years at least. I hate to state that the only way numbers may be limited or significantly reduced is if Trump (assuming he's the Republican nominee) wins as Trump has made it clear he will end the war by, presumably, seeking a deal with Putin.



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    #15375
    Peter Flynt
    Registered Users Posts: 2,871 ✭✭✭Peter Flynt


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820755#Comment_121820755

    FF will do nothing for as long as Martin is their leader. They need to dump him after the next election. He's had 14 years ffs as leader and still won't get off the stage. Same for Varadkar. He has to go as well as he's just utterly useless.



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    #15376
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820764#Comment_121820764

    Trump will likley win and that will have a slowing effect on Ukranian emigration, assumimg Trump is able to pacify Putin.

    But it wont have any effect on global asylum immigratiom, which is still yet to peak obviously.



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    #15377
    tom23
    Registered Users Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭tom23


    Cant see Martin there regardless after the next election.



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    #15378
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users Posts: 7,328 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820764#Comment_121820764

    You my friend are delusional if you think Putin will stop let alone Trump can stop him.


    Don’t be so naive.



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    #15379
    tom23
    Registered Users Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭tom23


    I have no love for any of the parties in power. Hate the greens as much as FFG. But no party has a tough stance on immigration and the current **** show it is. But someone has to crack and it’s one of those 2.



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    #15380
    patnor1011
    Registered Users Posts: 3,042 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820613#Comment_121820613

    It is not conflicting messages. You seems to have problem acknowledging that this issue and many other issues are not strictly black and white. There is not us against them or two camps or anything like that. Person can be pro immigration yet totally opposed to current policies or open border policy.

    Some people like to label others with all kinds of *ism labels if they deviate just alittle from their own belief but fact is that this and many more topics cant be defined and people divided as simply pro or against camp.



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    #15381
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820871#Comment_121820871

    Thanks. I know what I read. It's conflicting messages. 👍

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #15382
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,464 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820624#Comment_121820624

    Indeed, the people citing immigration as a concern are still going to vote for FF, FG, SF, Lab, SDs, PBP etc in the elections. It would be a mistake to take these polls and view them as evidence of the Irish public becoming radicalised and moving towards the right or even the far right. People are hardly going to become committed right wingers over a solitary issue that's in the news at the moment.



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    #15383
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820834#Comment_121820834

    Please dont say you are thinking of voting SF lol.



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    #15384
    Goldengirl
    Registered Users Posts: 13,004 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820838#Comment_121820838

    Thanks jj.

    Was thinking, what a world some are looking for.. Trump to win and then the supposed leader of the free world to fawn or worse over Putin (again!) in the hope of stopping immigration from Ukraine!

    As if Ukrainians or anybody else in the surrounding countries will be staying happily at home given that scenario, never mind Putin free to carry on expanding his empire?!



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    #15385
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820907#Comment_121820907

    Hopefully you are correct. The only caveat I suppose is that there isnt an alternat8ve party fpr people to vote for.

    We may see an upswing in independents, if they field enough candidates across the country.

    But srill an FFG returned govt at the end of it all.



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    #15386
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820965#Comment_121820965

    Are you looking for an alternative? You talk about it a lot.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #15387
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820868#Comment_121820868

    They dont need to crack. Not at all.

    They will return the same govt we have today, in all liklehood. Perhaps with the greens replaced by indies or the Soc Dems.

    But FFG will likley lead the govt, regardless.

    If SF had an anti immigration stance and it was winning them votes, THEN you would see FF or FG peel away.



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    #15388
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users Posts: 3,436 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820979#Comment_121820979

    No, not personally.

    I am just commenting on the macro situation.

    I do feel that a lot of people are looking for an alternative though.

    I dont share their view, but that doesnt mean I can't be honest with what I see in front of me.



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    #15389
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,062 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121820994#Comment_121820994

    That's interesting but makes no sense.

    You keep on repeatedly mentioning alternatives.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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