Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Yep.

It is one thing wanting our own tds to get a grip on immigration numbers etc but actively supporting outside countries electing somebody like Trump, to " satisfy Putin " puts into perspective who are the real enemy of this argument here, and in whose interest it is to keep fuelling this debate or any debate that seeks to make people dissatisfied with our democracy.

And thats not CT.

There has been research done that shows Russian involvement as well as far right actors (I know people hate this phrase but denying them doesn't make them disappear!) in our own SM as well as European SM, pushing anti democracy narrative, against governments (none of whom are perfect we all know democratic oppsition and any organisation seen to support those fleeing war or helping support aid to countries like Ukraine.

https://www.isdglobal.org/isd-publications/uisce-faoi-thalamh-platform-analysis/

Its the trolls that don't look like trolls feeding conflict and fear and misinformation.

The ones who don't want anybody to believe in the existence of the " far right" " until they get enough of their people voted in to form a party.

The thing to remember is no matter how bad our government appears to be and none are perfect or suit everybody, at least we have a functioning democracy where we can elect new people every few years, we can protest, we can write about our woes and anger here and elsewhere. Freely.

Unlike the countries with governments that are trying hard to subvert opinion in our little country among others, as well as UK and US.

Both of these posts are naive imho.

Both sides,not seeing what is happening. Europewide. And here.

It can happen and is happening here.

- Anti immigration resentment. Anger that " they" are getting our benefits our houses our schools, our places at the GP, our hotels.

- People starting to not see people in need but lumping all as economic migrants or worse.

- Othering of people with different religions, skin colours, accents.

- Blaming refugees for all of our country's societal ills which were present long before " they" came to our shores and are not of their making.

- Certain populist TDs looking to hoover up extra votes talking to known far right activists.

Right wing views that have reasonable respect for democracy and human rights DO NOT support targeting of vulnerable individuals or protesting about these people, violence or arson.

Why would this be coming together now?

We have had inept government for years now but still with a liberal democracy and strong economy which makes us a target for those that want rich pickings and power to do what they want without little pesky things like legislation and democracy getting in the way.

I was simply making the point that the next general election is entirely irrelevant when it comes to immigration. It’ll be an issue but there will be no change no matter who ends up in government. And I then therefore made the point that the flow of Ukrainian immigrants would likely be reduced if Trump wins. This does not translate into support for anything.

Your ability to downplay the role of US president is quite impressive. All the other stuff (that Putin is gonna take over the world) is just garbage.

Such bullshit from Beatty fat fucker

I can't see what good Soc Dems could play in any role. It would be more of the same and then some. I get the pro immigration crowd here just want to keep things going as they are and for the government to keep doing their international and NGO obligations, but Holly Cairns hasn't once said how she would make any immigration policy fit for purpose. None that I am aware of. If we want to have an immigration system that works, we need to fix it first. In order to do that we need admit we have made a bollix of it and to get real about it. We can't keep buying hotel rooms. We can't keep throwing billions at it regardless if the world is on the move. We have finite resources here and that includes tax take. The magic money tree that we seem to have won't last for forever. Some folks talk about Sinn Fein getting in and wrecking the economy... well Soc dems and their 7 TD's can stay on the opposition benches as far as I am concerned, in government as they will do more damage. Look at the **** show the other little party has caused. RTE, Immigration.

But the flow of Ukrainian refugees won’t slow with a Trump win.

Stop posting lies as the truth.

Ukranian foreign minister calling on Ukranians to return home to support the war effort:

Pat Kenny has the inevitable person on who has any number of reasons for not doing so herself but agrees that others should do so to fight and help clean-up/rebuild, including those who weren't supposed to have left in the first place.

"White people are now a minority in London". So what? Genuinely who actually cares.

I'm sure you're gonna say that you mean some stereotype about non-white cultures not fitting in, but when you specifically bring up white skin colour demographics, a rational person can read into that as some casual xenophobia.

I agree with you that there needs to be a long term plan for IPA immigration.

Nobody can reasonably argue that not having a plan, is a plan.

That information is certainly overdue from the publics POV & I hope O'Gorman can lay out a short, medium and long term plan soon, preferably when he releases details of the state owned accomodation for IPAs.

I think the Soc Dems can have a positive influence here and that they would inject some urgency into govt policy and in particular, the provision of new housing and infrastructure.

They would also communicate much better on the subject of immigrarion and this would help allay some peoples fears.

The fact remains that govt communcation needs to be backed up with a plan. One without the other isnt enough.

Wait, you think that the Social Democrats, that literally ran an ayslum scammer Ellie Kisyombe as a candidate, and then doubled down on that decision when her lies were pointed out to them, are the people to allay peoples fears about immigration and the broken asylum system....

...if you believe that, I have a bridge to sell!

Who said anything about Crimea?

Ukraine will fight on regardless of the US or not.

They will fight on because they have no choice, it’s about survival as a nation and people as Russia has made it clear they want to erase Ukraine and it’s people from existence.

I think you need to lay off the Russian propaganda and realise you’re the one dreaming if you think Ukraine will give up and surrender to Putin.

I wouldnt base an entire party's immigration manifesto on a solo candidate experience from 5 years ago.