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Game News 2.0

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,876 ✭✭✭Mr Crispy


    Wow. Even Naughty Dog, Insomniac, and Guerrilla are affected. **** capitalism.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,411 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    More info:

    Guerrilla, Naughty Dog and Insomniac among those impacted, alongside the closure of London Studio.

    Horrendous stuff. Lots of people immediately out of a job, but so few places for them to go. The talent loss from this ruthless year is hard to fathom or quantify.

    Also this week we’ve had the news that the quite prolific Die Gute Fabrik is closing. Brutal time even within the indie space.




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,589 ✭✭✭sniper_samurai


    Look at this smiling arse in the middle who most likely already knew everyone else here was being sacked this week.

    Also oof...




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,845 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Until people make a stand this will continue. If every outlet that is reporting on how brutal the companies are acting refused to cover their games. If every player refused to buy their games. They wouldn't be long changing their ways.

    But unfortunately, the next game from Activision, Sony, Microsoft etc etc will get full coverage on all these sites and sell plenty of copies boosting profits and validating the job cuts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,954 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    Hmmm. They are pretty brutal cuts. Once one company starts the others follow as it's been normalised. The entertainment industry is in huge flux. Huge costs on one side and the threat/promise of AI for content generation and programming/qa grunt work.

    And it'll leak into other industries that do not have real income coming in the door. Ton of IT companies (my employer included) cutting costs like crazy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,607 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    To make it worse, Jim Ryan is leaving Sony in the next few weeks (think the end of March). So chances are they made the layoffs now so whoever comes in next technically isn't to blame for the layoffs.

    What a horrible industry it's become for those working in it. The layoffs over the past 12 months have been absolutely horrendous. Hard to see what it'll take to fix it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,411 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    TBH, unionisation and regulation are infinitely more impactful than any player or media boycotts are going to be. They actually protect workers who find themselves in these situations, and - in an ideal world - would also stop the more extreme sorts of corporate excess and overreach.

    You can already see the very different protections in place for workers in Europe compared to the US thanks to a different regulatory and worker protection environment. You’re never going to get a critical mass of players to make a difference - but proper unionisation can and will.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,282 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,432 ✭✭✭RedXIV


    It's going to be interesting to see how this affects the next wave of games under development. We've seen so many get cut from games companies, they can usually slot easily into more enterprise software for more money, I can forsee a massive gap in talent next time there is a hiring buzz. Hope the staff remember and force higher pay as a result



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,600 ✭✭✭quokula


    Taking some sort of boycott measure to try and make future games sell worse and force another round of layoffs isn't going to help anyone.

    It's almost every single studio in the industry, and they're not doing it for fun. I know there's the argument that Microsoft / Sony / Epic etc are big enough to take the hit, and they are, but they're not charities and they can't fund teams that aren't making a profit forever. Layoff packages there are usually at least pretty decent, unlike the fate of many developers at smaller studios like Die Gute Fabrik who just close down.

    There's just not enough money to go round right now. Investment funds are no longer putting money into the industry so you can't really start developing a game without deep pockets of your own, while ever bigger games cost too much to make and are too cheap to buy. Microtransactions and live services have tried to fill the gap but there's been a justified backlash against those.

    I think there's an inevitable realignment coming towards more "double A" style games because the industry is just not sustainable as is. For every early access breakout indie success there are thousands of failures and for every AAA success there is a gamble of hundreds of millions behind it that would lead to absolute disaster if it didn't achieve mega numbers.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,589 ✭✭✭sniper_samurai


    And Sony continue to scrap GaaS titles. Tbh I think Twisted Metal would have worked with this model for a couple of years.




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,411 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    The curious irony of course being that they’ve just had an exceptionally rare GaaS hit with Helldivers 2. All these cancelled games from big franchises, and ultimately the hit they were looking for came with little fanfare and pure AA sheen.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,282 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    Only way to get higher pay is get an new job. Either use that as leverage or leave. Corporations will do the bare minimum to keep you on and their bare minimum at the moment is a annual wage increase well below inflation so 'thanks for all the hard work, how about you work harder this year and we don't cut your wages as much next year?'.

    I feel a lot of these developers are young, took me long enough to realise big corporations have no loyalty so don't deserve any from you, but they sure as hell will make it feel like they deserve it.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,282 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,282 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    All this talk about lay offs in the industry is awful and all but thankfully we have Geoff Keighley to let us know that our consumerism will not be interrupted:

    I love how AI is thrown into the product title like it's the corporate version of the Super in a Super nintendo title.



  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭PixelPlayer


    The reality is people cannot afford all these games and all these digital subscription services. When you're cutting back video games has got to be the easiest chop to make. You can still play your library and can pick up cheaper games with just a bit of patience (and when you're getting a better quality game through patches its a no brainer). And evidently, free games and cheaper AA games are scratching the itch for a lot of people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭PixelPlayer


    My experience with AI after repeated wrong answers:

    Yes you are right, I made that up. Im so sorry for all the wrong answers and I understand your frustration. Here is the correct way - proceeds to give me the first wrong answer in the sequence.

    How anyone thinks this technology is going to replace jobs anytime soon is beyond me. Of course it will get better, but I think the more likely outcome is that standards will be lowered and consumers will be expected to accept flawed, inaccurate and poor quality products and services while either paying the same price or more likely be expected to pay more because of the "cost of AI".



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,954 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    I read human excretion as a DLC first and though who the hell wants that. 😆



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,282 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    It's not AI, it's machine learning and all you can train it to do is give an expected response at least. There's no creativity or thinking outside the box.

    On the other hand AI is going to be a buzzword attached to everything like crypto was, but in this case I can't even see how AI/machine learning would even work. It's just a simple I/O interface to control it, AI/machine learning is totally redundant or at best just complicates a very simple task.



  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭PixelPlayer


    The big con in this is that they released it into the public domain so that we could be used to train it. You can see that in the answers it gives you and when you guide it by saying, no 2+2=4 not 5 it says, I'm sorry you are right, 2+2 does equal 4. Then it sticks this information in its database.

    We are all helping trillion dollar companies refine their algorithms and populate their databases for free.

    It's like the recaptcha sign in validation. Pick all the pictures with a bus. People don't realise we're just training the AI to better recognise buses.

    In older times it was all text based for training OCR engines (software that scans documents and converts to word docs etc) when digitising paper documents was big money.

    From their point of view. AI in games is the perfect way to train their software by gamifying what are extremely tedious tasks that they can't hire people to do.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,935 ✭✭✭Mr.Saturn


    I suspect the same people that'd be gameball for the sweet, sweet smell of human exertion. "Yeah, it's a good game, but d'you not think it'd be improved with the bang of sweat?" is not a question that's ever been posed to me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭PixelPlayer


    I always wonder what if anything will ever make me fall out of love for gaming. Am I really going to be gaming in my retirement (physical well being permitting) because that idea fcuking rocks and makes me look forward to being old.

    But I think AI in gaming is going to be that thing that makes me say, nah not loving this anymore.

    Hold onto your old consoles and physical disks lads and ladies. We're going to need them. Old games before AI ruined everything are going to be how we play in the future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,811 ✭✭✭✭Zero-Cool


    Not even the guts to tell them then in person.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,282 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I keep saying that myself but honestly gaming has never been better and with small developers now having little barrier to entry when it comes to publishing it looks like it will stay that way. I had a bit of a wobble during the PS360 era but Demon's Souls came out and I realised I wasn't growing out of games just all the big name games were garbage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,967 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    I'd argue it's the opposite. Subscriptions have made me spend way less money than I used to. I always had to buy a game, now I pay the price of 3 games a year and play hundreds (if I wanted to). Playing just 3 AAA games that come to it justifies the yearly sub, and stops me from buying games I would have previously as I'm now waiting for them to come to a sub service. These are games I would have originally waited for a ~€30 discount before buying, now those games/devs are getting nothing from me but instead a sliver of Sonys pie. It's why I still think MS shot themselves in the foot with Day 1 AAA releases on Gamepass. Can't be sustainable.

    But I can't see sub services going anywere. They're basically part and parcel now. And it's grand, it's basically a digital version of the times in Ireland during the SNES era where we rented games, but better. PS+ is what, €14 a month. I used to rent a game every weekend, at £5 a time (for the newer games) IIRC. That's about €11 now, 4 times a month, so €44/month. PS+ is great value to my older eyes and gives waaaaaaay more choice. But I still never want a fully digital marketplace. I'll spend even less if that comes about, because I'm not dropping €70+ on something I can't trade in if I don't like it. Made that mistake with Destiny...



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Twas only a matter of time before Nintendo decided to do more Nintendo things. They're going after one of the emulators, looking for compensation too, not just a straight shut down. I'd guess that if they succeed on this one, it'll kill off the rest too, and even if they don't succeed, they enough money to bury them in legal fees.




  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭PixelPlayer


    It really is hard to justify emulators of consoles still in production. You can get games before they've been released and they play better than on the console with 1440p/60fps and evenc4k/60fps of your cpu can handle it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,432 ✭✭✭RedXIV


    I do think that anyone that looks to make money off an emulator is looking for trouble to be fair. Especially on a currently selling console. Its the passion projects that I always hate seeing attacked. Especially the ones working hard to keep older games that haven't been ported to modern systems available to newer generations.

    I've no problem admitting that I'm interested in this area, but just don't have the time/skill to really dig into it, but I know enough and was able to get things like the n64 dev kit software which was fascinating to pour over.

    I think Nintendo have to do this really when monetization is happening, but to be fair, this could be much more widespread, there are tons of other, free emulators out there that are mostly left alone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 29,811 ✭✭✭✭Zero-Cool




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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,163 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    That's hella trash.



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