Range Finders

no i think it is fine to use a phone app as a golf gps unit

as long as things like wind direction/speed and slop features are not enabled

pretty sure it's been like this for quite a number of years now, was certainly an issue in the early days but i'm pretty sure there was a rule brought in to allow it

now i think of it

was it a case that clubs had to adopt some sort of local rule to allow GPS devices at one stage? but then rules of golf changed to allow it by default

If you are looking at range finders as a cause of slow play or to speed up golf you are looking in the wrong place.

A few good posts above on like the top 10 other issues - in fact there is probably grounds for a new slow play thread in the forum. There have been many changes in the game - new players - covid / golf boom - rule changes .

About 5 years ago - GI the R&A and various clubs - had genuinely put a great body of work in to speed up play and it seemed to work at some places - Ready golf etc - became a big topic of conversation and I was somewhat positive about the way things were going.

But sadly - due to a combination of a few things - we are in a bad place again. New golfers and more golfers are all great , but we are now looking at a time were we are back to 4.5 + hours golf - and often on easy enough courses .

But you do have to realize - or I have at this stage, that there are many many golfers out there - that are perfectly happy with 4.5 hours golf - don't really want fast golf - some have changed their attitude a bit post covid - have stepped a bit away from work - and are not in a rush for anyone - and you know what, maybe they are right - seem very happy and look like they will not die soon due to stress.

The secret to golf is to find golfers - who have the same mindset - same sort of goals in the round. Playing with players who know what they are at , is a pleasure - an almost metronomic pace - 2nd player hitting almost as the other player's ball is still rolling - no delay - no faffing about or bullshit.

The issue with range finders in the wrong hands is - that players with slow routines - add this to their already slow routine - I think it was Russman here who put it well - do you ever see a player take anything out of their routine - people add to their routine - slow players add stuff to everything - at every point. They also have a tendency - to only start their stuff when the world is clear for them. Don't even stand near their bag or have a club in hand when it is their shot.

But can you change these types ? it is a personality thing ? it is how they are built ? - as a good wise friend of mine says - "do you **** think you will change him at this stage of his life "

So - is it a case of just give up. Don't play with this type of player - don't play in 4 balls with random players ? maybe ! - but that is a bit depressing for a game that should be about playing with everyone - tolerance and enjoying walk together.

I think that perhaps golf being a solo sport - attracts a certain type - people who thrive in process and data and technology - there is a tendency to overcomplicate it all. The modern data driven game seems to be moving away from the simple nature of golf. I'm a little saddened by that - part of the beauty in golf for me - was the imperfection - the lack of data - the use of eye - the simple nature of it - the fact it was somewhat the same in 1970 versus 2020 - but where are we going with tech for tech sake - data for everything - and aim point on the greens. I recently seen an amateur go to a golf course with a spirit level - all driven by a You Tube world.

But - I'm not a complete technophobic idiot - you look at all these things and say - ok this genuinely is groundbreaking and a massive help. The laser is a phenomenal advantage - and it is constant feedback and simple feedback to your mind of how far exactly you are hitting a club. No need for a GPS too - but wont get into that - anyone looking into it, get one - but please use before it is anywhere near your turn - and be quick. The modern game of 4 lads stepping up to a par 3 all having a GPS and a Laser and all measuring and talking it all over - is the perfect example of where golf is in 2023 versus even 2003 . Could one not just go - lads "flag is 145 yards (end of)" - of course all these lads have to step down off tee and then get a club after above dance and chat.

Anyway - it is a bit of a futile conversation - as my cork friend said to me - you can't fundamentally change a grown man - and should you bother. You find a form of golf that suits you - and there are loads of people out there that want 3.5 hour golf - and loads of others, that the time is of zero significance and actually adds to their enjoyment.

Now - if i had any influence on the game - the slow guys should probably play at the back of the field with the other slow lads - and the fast lads should play together in a different place or 9.

Also - we definitely need more shorter forms of golf - the move towards 9 was a great idea - but an odd WHS glitch has made that almost blacked in the data driven WHS obsessed golfers of Ireland - and now a 9 hole score is dirt.

Also - whilst i agree with the laser - lads at it from 30 yards or whatever - for **** sake - lol

What next the putting green.

Anyway - each to their own - and they won't change anyway .

Your first two points here are almost interchangeable in my experience and the things I find most frustrating in a slow round. If playing with a stranger that is telling a story and carries on with it while they are standing over their ball I want to pull my hair out. When it is a stranger it makes it more socially difficult to tell them to button it and hit the ball and finish the story while walking. I am quite a fast player and often to my detriment will end up playing faster than I should to try to make up the difference of the slow player.

I'm not as fussed about it if we are keeping pace with the group in front or it is a quiet day on the course and our pace is not affecting anyone else but am always conscious of my groups position/pace on the course.

i recall a post by our esteemed colleague @GreeBo on this very subject a number of years ago where I questioned the merit of lasering from about 50 yards.

I'm paraphrasing here (because to be honest I've better things to do right now than search for the post, but I might look it up later on) but he argued that the alternative was to pace it out.

they genuinely have a swing for 30 yards and another swing for 25 yards

personally, i'm more of a feel player on those kind of shots

But at 13 ..the joy is to watch someone do something naturally...

The beauty of the natural ability of a human.

What other sport are we enabling electronics to help you .

I personally think the governing bodies caved on technology and would prefer none of it to be honest .

Sport should be sport...

I personally don't think Lasers speed up play ....and if you see a lad laser from 30 yards on the first hole...you know your day is over..

I know your trolling me...

But will reply later..

But these dudes would bring it on the green if they could think of it ..place their bags on / next to green and walk back and forth about 3 times..

So you are right ..a rule may have to come in at some point..

Maybe withing the green area as marked in some courses..

Because bags and players are getting too close to greens and tee boxes...

When it comes to AI / technology dudes in golf..you need to think of the most daft thing..

so as I’ve said above, rounds in my own course 40 years ago took roughly 4 hours.

rounds still take roughly 4 hours.

I suspect most clubs would be roughly the same

yes you get the odd nightmare of a day and some of the newer course may take a bit longer as they tend to be longer

but comparing like with like, 40 years on and adding in range finders, has not made rounds any longer

He has one. He's blind as well.

I tend to agree with this. I've no strong feeling one way or another about someone using a laser (apart from judging them very harshly in my head if they use it from 50 yards 😁). I don't think for a second they are material contributor to pace of play / slow play. IMO people playing slowly is the cause of slow play, but its for another thread.

That said, I think it massively depends on someone's experience in the game as to how useful rangefinders are. I'm not quiet old enough to remember golf 40 years ago, but I'm playing long enough (pre GPS and even pre yardage markers on the fairway) that I'm fairly comfortable playing by eye if I have to, whereas I've a high h/c friend who swears his GPS watch is the biggest factor in his improvement over recent years in that it lets him commit to a club/shot when he's sure of the yardage. Certainly IMO they're definitely worth something on a strange course, but I wouldn't miss it for a moment if I didn't have it on my own course.

To Fixs point, I think the handicap system contributes enormously more to slow play than a RF does.

If were giving people handicaps that can take 120+ strokes on a course and still be competing, then that's adding a lot more time on to a round.

Re closer in, I don't have a major issue either.

For me, I have a distance with my wedges (50,54,60) when I have the club pointing straight up to 12 o'clock. So a quick zap will tell me which wedge I should have in my hand.

Will I execute that precisely, maybe not, but if I need to carry a bunker, and I'm doing it by eye from 60-70 yards, a more accurate distance will give me much more margin for error in my club choice. So I might not hit the ball 67 yards, but I'm more likely to pick the club that'll get me within 62-72 rather than the club that might end up 55-65 which brings the trouble into play, dependent on strike