Joe Biden Presidency thread *Please read OP - Threadbanned Users Added 4/5/21*

Stopping funding for Israel isn't abandoning them though. The US doesn't pump billions into France or Australia, yet they're still close allies. It's an absurdity that the US gives Israel billions annually, when it's one of the wealthiest nations in the world. Even allowing for the budgeting nonsense involved with defense "aid" , where it's effectively the US paying US defense firms.

Multiple posters have explained the nuances of the situation that means there isn't an easy solution no matter what Biden's 'messaging' is and your response has continued to be 'bad thing is bad' - which no one here nor Biden disagrees with.

You also continue to refuse to explain how things would improve by bringing people into power who would be worse for the Palestinians, who have advocated turning Gaza into a 'parking lot'.

Your point being? Israel gets the benefit, without having to pony up the money. The same Israel whose attempts to steal secrets related to the F-22, led to it being banned from export, for example. They are an extremely wealthy country, and the US doesn't need to gift them billions in defense aid, especially when they have a robust and profitable defense manufacturing base themselves.

There's no nuance to the situation, it's cowardice on the part of US politicians. Simple as. Putting their own self interest above holding to a moral position.

It's also not a direct equivalency between not voting for Biden and Trump winning an election. If a voter feels strongly enough that opposing Israel's actions matters more than the potential of a Trump presidency, then they are entitled to with hold their vote, regardless of how little you think or anyone else thinks on the matter.

If a voter feels that way they have absolutely no real understanding of politics. Of course they are entitled to do it, and other people are entitled to point out the complete lack of understanding it demonstrates, and that their course of action is almost certain to backfire.

It is "Do justice even if the heavens fall" territory.

Or in this case - not.

I disagree. Rewarding someone with your vote when they refuse to work on your behalf is what causes this situation to persist. If the Democrats saw voters refusing to vote and thus lose elections, the they would be incentivised to field candidates who would support the goals of the voters. That's how it's meant to work.

There absolutely is a direct equivalency. No matter how much you do not like it, US politics is binary.

I don't even mind someone not voting for Biden, what some who claim to be from the left have been doing is far worse and pushing a full scale campaign against Biden for not doing things how they want him to, creating a toxic environment.

I never said they didn't have a right to do whatever they want with their votes or voice coming up to the election. What I said is that if they choose to be petulant and continue to attack Biden and he loses I dont want to hear from the after the election if Trump brings in a Muslim travel ban, throws Gaza protesters in jail, or supports Israel in going far further than they already have like fully clearing Gaza and dropping settlers in there.

I don't want to hear a single word because they and the likes of you will be part of the reason for it happening. Elections have consequences.

No they haven't. Nothing like what MAGA and Trump have planned, nothing like what Trump tried to do last time out and is still dodging the consequences of. This is like 1938 and one side (A) wants to sell out to the Nazis and you're with holding your vote from the other side (B) because you don't like their stance on a day to day political matter. And a political matter that you disagree with (A) on even more!

It's ivory tower self indulgence.

An ethnic cleansing is not a day to day political event. This isn't folks being upset about a union dispute, or voting access. It's a life or death crisis that the US has been directly supporting. How else ought people influence politicians, other than the one method of control they have over them?

It is absolutely petulant to cut your nose off to spite your face for a short term feel good of hurting someone you dont like.

No issues about people holding their politicians accountable but they can shut their mouth if these same actions bring in someone far worse and they end up making things worse for the people they claim to care about.

I think that gravely misunderstands the grief of palestinian and muslim americans who have watched in some cases, their whole family get erased by Israel while POTUS tells Seth Meyers 'I'm a proud Zionist' and idly discussing a ceasefire might happen in a week, maybe not, by Monday, over an ice cream cone. I know he didn't pick the question a reporter asked him, but that distinction doesn't matter much to the bereaved. They're already dead inside, their loved ones are actually dead, it is hubris to think they're going to be out in a 3 hour line for Biden in November just because Trump is on the ballot. They don't see a distinction between the two candidates, the way it seems to them, Palestine is fucked either way, and its people left for dead.

That is all fine but they can keep their mouths shut if their families or friends are banned from travelling to the US, they are thrown in jail for protesting, or if Trump backs Israel to act even worse against the Palestinians.

Part of voting is at times picking the least worst option.

THIS attitude, doesn't improve the situation, it pours gas on the pyre.

In a DEMOCRACY, people don't have to keep their mouth shut because of 'the other guy' and what they might do.

At times, part of voting is doing it with your feet.

The American Experiment in general may not be worth saving to people if it will (continue to) defend and uphold genocidal acts against oppressed peoples.