Dublin Metrolink - future routes for next Metrolink

I've seen folks mention different voltages, but while I'm not 100%, I believe Metrolink will use the same voltage. Luas use 750v DC, which is pretty standard for Metro's like this, for instance the Copenhagen Metro that this is quiet similar also uses 750v DC (though third rail rather then overhead).

Of course there would still be work to do, but I'm not certain there is a major change required here.

The CBA of a Luas line to UCD would be vastly better then a Metro to the SW.

The Luas line would be relatively cheap to build as it would mostly just replace the QBC on a very wide road, with only limited pinch points. Not a particularly expensive project.

By comparison a SW Metro will likely end up costing 5 Billion+

Remember, cost plays into a CBA, so to give a very simple example, lets say a UCD Luas ends up costing 300 million and carries 6,000 in the morning peak, while the SW Metro ends up costing 5 Billion and ends up carrying 8,000 in the morning peak. Yes, the SW Metro carries more, but the high cost makes it a worse CBA. Of course a lot more goes into a CBA and these are made up numbers, but hopefully it makes sense.

I'd also disagree that it is really close to the GL. This corridor is one of the busiest in the city for buses and it is pretty much a no brainer for a Luas line.

Again, I suspect we will see Luas lines built out all along the core bus corridors. It is obvious now that the buses can't handle the numbers of passengers and the driver shortages and we need to broadly switch to Luas across the city.

That isn't an issue, the buses can use the Luas tracks. Also you'd have far less buses anyway as they would be replaced by the Luas.

Again, this is likely to happen on all the core Bus routes, Swords Road, etc. Just look at the post 2042 map.

If we can afford to do both Metrolink and DART+ and the same time, then there is no reason why we couldn't do a relatively cheap green line Metro upgrade, cheap UCD Luas + SW Metro.

All these projects would add up to much less then Metrolink + DART+ + Busconnects

Realistically a SW Metro looks to have a very poor CBA, that is the problem it faces. It will really be competing with the two proposed SW Luas lines.

Double deckers are 80 to 90 depending on model. Up to 120 if you use tri-axles.

Of course the requirements are much lower if you have a UCD Luas running in parallel.

This is all detailed in the TII docs on the Green line Upgrade. AFAIR the platforms need to be increased by 600mm.

However Sam is correct, the biggest delay would be cosntructing the tunnel inline. If you instead construct the tunnel offline, it becomes much easier.

So I think we need to step back and look at the bigger picture.

The southern corridor has and will continue to see massive growth. Sandyford, Cherrywood and the planned Luas extension to Bray. There is no way the Green line is going to be able to handle this growing demand.

There are only two realistic options to handle this increase:

• Convert the GL to Metro
• Extend the Metrolink south towards UCD and back to Sandyford. This would allow folks from Sandyford to Bray to switch to the Metrolink there and would leave the GL as is, taking the pressure off needing to upgrade it.

The first option is obviously much cheaper. But if folks are so certain the GL can't be closed, then the second option while be more expensive obviously, might be easier to stomach, with no need to close the GL, etc.

Notice I don't mention the SW, that is because it is a completely different corridor. A SW Metro, either from Charlemont or Stephens Green, isn't going to do anything to help fix the issues of the Southern corridor/GL.

The SW is a stand alone question, much as the NE, Lucan, etc. are. Options will have to be looked at for the SW, either Luas or a standalone Metro, etc.

The only thing I'm saying about the SW, is that it really doesn't make sense for it to extend from Charlemont, if it is a Metro, then a standalone Metro line 2 makes much more sense and for only a small price increase.

Sure, Metro West didn't envisage doing that, but if the need is there today or in the future, certainly no harm in extending it between them. The Beauty of Metro West was that you could do it in sections and expand it over time and still be very useful without having to do the full circle line from the start.

Sure, but now you are tunnelling a few KM's under Tallaght, big increase in cost. But yes, it has potential, but WAY more expensive then a simple upgrade to the GL. But I agree, it really should be both, these really are two totally different projects.

4.5km or a 58 minute walk according to Google Maps. Not at all close in public transport planning terms. No one is going to walk 58 minutes to get a DART into town!

There is just 2km between Park West train station (future DART+) and Red cow Luas stop, 3.8km to Belgrade Luas stop and 5km to Tallaght. Hell it is “just” 8km between Tallaght and Dundrum!

These sort of distances are meaningless in public transport terms. The rule of thumb is the catchment area for a bus stop is 400 - 500 meters, while rail stations more like 1km.

Again I really don’t like the way some are making this some sort of stupid competition between two different corridors!

Yep, putting some rough numbers on it:

• Luas every 6 minutes, 4,000 PPHPD
• Double decker bus every 3 minutes gives you (generously) 1,700 PPHPD

PPHPD - Passengers per hour per direction.

That is 2.4 times more passengers with half the number of drivers (10 v 20 per hour).