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Game News 2.0

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    #7232
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,282 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832268#Comment_121832268

    Just look at the Glasgow Wonka experience for an example of a shitshow aided by AI generation.

    Honestly there cases for AI in menial tasks and nothing more but the execs are just seeing profit of they can outsource the creative roles like coding, art and advertising to AI. There's no real market there for it but the execs are just seeing profit like they did with nft and blockchain.

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    #7233
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users Posts: 7,845 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Part of me is loving the removal of barriers to creating games. There are likely millions of great games trapped inside the heads of people who can't program or are otherwise prevented from making them. So that's a plus.

    If it is used to give the same number of people the ability to do something extra for their games that they otherwise wouldn't have the time/budget for, then I'm okay with it being used too.

    A small budget team of 2-5 people can't afford to hire 20 artists to create 1000s of unique items for their game. But AI could so they can focus on the task in-hand. Without AI there would be just less in the game. It's not costing anyone a job. If it is used to review code for errors then fine.

    But that's not what will happen.

    AI create a "Procedurally generated roguelike extraction shooter with zombies and then Upload it to steam".



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    #7234
    McFly85
    Registered Users Posts: 3,059 ✭✭✭McFly85


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832457#Comment_121832457

    AI as I have used it so far can be a great tool to allow devs to quickly get past the mundane to spend more time working on actual functionality. It can create decent structure but it’s highly generalised, doesn’t really do code quality and still needs the developer to be the primary source of code. This tool sounds like a great way for small devs to setup PoCs quickly so they can get to the meat of developing unique gameplay. But we’ll see creatively bankrupt companies leverage it to create cheap garbage too unfortunately.

    Generally I find executives view AI only as a cost cutting measure, if devs can code faster then we need less devs. I think it’s incredible short terminism and disregards that good coders, especially in a creative industry like gaming, are creatives in their own right.



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    #7235
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,282 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832598#Comment_121832598

    From my time in the industry, the 'ideas' people with no coding experience never get anything made and never will. They also make absolutely awful game designers. These are the people that will tell you about their idea for a game and will give you all of their lore and world building but when you ask how it will work as a game they can't tell you anything. If they don't have the go ahead to learn to code they don't have the ability to make a game. With the tools available there's no reason you couldn't be able to learn to code, high level languages and game engines make it very easy to learn in a short space of time.

    So yeah I don't see AI making things easier but will give the dullest people with no clue how to make a game an avenue to flood open game stores. The art AI will produce will always have an AI look generated look to it and will never stand out as original. There's also plenty of texture packs out there so you don't even need AI and the places were AI would be hopeless, rigging and interesting character design, is where you are going to need creatives. Thinking you can just get AI to make an interesting game also shows a complete misunderstanding of how game design works. Getting your game up and running is usually the quickest part of game design. The hours of iteration and making minor changes to variables and arrays for hours to refine game feel or AI take way more time than you'd expect. Anyone clueless to code isn't going to understand that.

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    #7236
    SuperBowserWorld
    Registered Users Posts: 6,954 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    ChatGPT writes way way better code than a lot of people I've worked with. It doesn't stick everything on one line for a start and gives things meaningful names.

    I think code generation is fine as it's just low level plumbing that it's taken from the internet. Saves time searching and composing code.

    It's definitely the end of an era though. Less people can do the same amount of work.

    When it starts writing new algorithms it's game over



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    #7237
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,326 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832978#Comment_121832978

    Uh, I think you need to work with better people, or better teams: can't say I've ever experienced that problem, but then my departments have tended to be peer-reviewed and/or included automatic code-quality tools. Like on my team, you couldn't submit a one-liner in the first place 'cos the "prettier" tool automatically breaks the code into human-readable blocks.

    So automatic toolsets already exist in code development, I think at worst what AI will do is remove a lot of the repetitive, boilerplate coding that can sometimes take up most of the time. Certainly as a front-end developer half the time is spent just rigging up basic UIs, webforms etc, the real meat being the contextual business logic therein; if AI could write "good" starter code for me to iterate on, cool - but that has been a bit 50/50. Cos on the other hand you spend so much time "fixing" the edge cases of automatic generation, I might as well hae started from scratch.



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    #7238
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,282 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832978#Comment_121832978

    It's ok for doing some menial task quickly but it makes mistakes so you still have to check it. I still haven't seen it manage anything creative. It also will never come up with new algorithms because it's not AI, it's machine learning. You can only train it to give you an expected result so it's never going to be creative.

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    #7239
    sniper_samurai
    Registered Users Posts: 7,589 ✭✭✭sniper_samurai


    Then you also have the likes of Sony owned Crunchyroll wanting to use "AI" to do their translation work. I've seen some translators being fobbed off with a lower fee to do corrections on JP->ENG MTL work and it usually takes longer than a normal manual translation as 9/10 times it spits out gibberish.



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    #7240
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,282 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121833196#Comment_121833196

    There's a big argument happening on twitter with the usual weebs complaint about the translation of unicorn overlord. They say it takes liberties and should be more accurate to the drier Japanese text. They don't really understand that there's a difference between translation and localisation. For example translation would be "I'm going to kill Lord Byron" and a localisation would be "I won't rest until I see Lord Byron under the cold wet dirt". Machine learning is only really going to give you at best the dry direct translation and probably full of errors as it will have no context of the overall work.

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    #7241
    sniper_samurai
    Registered Users Posts: 7,589 ✭✭✭sniper_samurai


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121833252#Comment_121833252

    Reminds me of the translation error in the German version of Grandia 2 where upon missing an attack it would display Fraülein for a miss as the translator was given no context.

    pu0s0nibi5i41.jpg




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    #7242
    PixelPlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭PixelPlayer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832957#Comment_121832957

    It's the asset packs that are most at risk I think. Even outside gaming, any kind of media assets will be easily generated. As ive said before, quality will suffer and we will be expect to accept lesser quality until there comes a time when we have a generation that knows no better. Like we saw with manufacturing outsourced to China and the quality of everything turn to absolute shyt. Now it is normal and accepted.

    Shutterstock must be worried but no doubt there will be Shutterstock AI any day now (if it isn't a thing already).



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    #7243
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,282 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121833315#Comment_121833315

    My favourite is FFV on PlayStation where the Wyvern was translated as Y burn. Pretty sure the translator had no context and the Japanese was a phonetic version of Wyvern.

    1-001.png

    Maybe it will be a return to the golden age of awful PS1 jrpgs translation?

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    #7244
    PixelPlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭PixelPlayer


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832978#Comment_121832978

    It doesn't stick everything on one

    Yikes!



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    #7245
    sniper_samurai
    Registered Users Posts: 7,589 ✭✭✭sniper_samurai


    Saber Interactive are leaving Embracer Group.

    https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1763239504897253797?t=FXFdT6gMTP_AiAwhegbQmA&s=19




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    #7246
    SuperBowserWorld
    Registered Users Posts: 6,954 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121833145#Comment_121833145

    Yup. They can't format or write code to be read by humans. They have no love for the craft and don't give a crap or understand that some other poor bastards might have to maintain their code.



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    #7247
    Cordell
    Registered Users Posts: 5,930 ✭✭✭Cordell


    I played a bit with chatGPT C code generation, assuming it's not as easy as python or go or other more recent popular ones being so strong typed and very strict and all. It generates easily readable code but it needs multiple iterations to get it right, by right meaning safe and not looking like some learn C in 30 days example. So it's not there yet, but it's scarily close.



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    #7248
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121833570#Comment_121833570

    Ah Embracer. Buy a company for $525 million, sell for $500 million. The most galling thing about this is that everybody saw this inevitable collapse coming.



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    #7249
    sniper_samurai
    Registered Users Posts: 7,589 ✭✭✭sniper_samurai


    Toys for Bob are going independent splitting from ABK after the Microsoft merger.

    https://twitter.com/Toadsanime/status/1763267415859679586?t=xjd7Ay90-e0YMKCRsQeApQ&s=19




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    #7250
    sniper_samurai
    Registered Users Posts: 7,589 ✭✭✭sniper_samurai


    Terminator is getting an asymmetrical multiplayer game later this year. Listen to the music on this trailer, it's awful.

    https://twitter.com/Nacon/status/1763271769970848023?t=4jtij3YGaU9x4WWIbxH4Ng&s=19


    Post edited by sniper_samurai on


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    #7251
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Toys for Bob are going independent too, escaping from ABK/MS. Good for them, must be soul crushing being this team known for making great games, and then just getting sucked into making COD games non stop.



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    #7252
    Varik
    Registered Users Posts: 12,535 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121833953#Comment_121833953

    Wasn't 525m straight. There was 100m cash upfront and then another 100m dependant on performance. The rest in shares, 50m upfront and then all the rest in shares again based on performance of which most are still vested.

    When sabre got bought the owners became the second largest shareholders in Embracer.



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    #7253
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,607 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121834198#Comment_121834198

    It'll be interesting to see if they'll create something original or make something for MS using a licence they own from the ABK purchase, like a new Crash or Spyro.



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    #7254
    sniper_samurai
    Registered Users Posts: 7,589 ✭✭✭sniper_samurai


    There's been a leak about Gearbox being in the final stages of getting out from under Embracer, expect to hear details about this within the next 2 weeks.



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    #7255
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,967 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Ah all these stories of once independent studios leaving their corporate overlords is very warming to the heart. Future has a sparkle of brightness in it.



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    #7256
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,326 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838109#Comment_121838109

    IT's one of the few silver linings in all this, along with the fact that layoffs often result in the formation of new companies and studios.

    That's a bit tempered this time around, there's a real funding crunch that's driving these layoffs, and if they aren't funding existing studios with existing series, then they're definitely not going to fund a brand new studio.



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    #7257
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,411 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121838419#Comment_121838419

    Yeah a sudden rush of independent developers is both a blessing but also a big challenge. As Jason Schreier's Press Reset quite comprehensively covers, it's very much a challenge to get a new studio up and running, even from the ashes of an older, established team. There's a finite amount of attention and market and investment out there, so there's likely to be more failures than successes.

    Which isn't to by any means discourage indie development or existing studios claiming more autonomy! That's the future, and it's something we're seeing in the media space as well. We'll undoubtedly get lots of great games from studios formed in the wake of the current corporate 'correction', and frankly we should all be more willing to support those than any big corporations. Independent games for life, as far as I'm concerned.

    But the indie life is a tough toil as well, and requires a large amount of capital to get a first game out the door - harder than ever at the moment. For most developers, a stable income is a godsend and luxury, and that's something you can't guarantee at a brand-new or newly-independent studio. Not everyone can afford to take a pay cut to go independent - in fact, most can't. And kinda like we're seeing with media, for all the tangible benefits and opportunities of having smaller, scrappier publications / studios, there are benefits to having bigger, well-staffed institutions as well.

    Again: **** all the AAA developers who don't really care about art or creativity. But with so many thousands of job losses, the reality is only a small percentage of those impacted will go onto form or work in new successful developers. By the same token there's going to be a big talent drain of people who'll leave the industry for good.

    I will say though: While I'm always skeptical about whether being owned by a different corporate entity than your previous one is typically good news (see the multiple media outlets that have been shuffled around between owners to predictably catastrophic effect), getting out from under Embracer is surely better than being stuck in that collapsing house of cards 😅

    Post edited by johnny_ultimate on


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    #7258
    a2deden
    Registered Users Posts: 210 ✭✭a2deden


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121832978#Comment_121832978

    Lol no it doesnt, ChatGPT throws out such meh solutions 99% of the time.



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    #7259
    SuperBowserWorld
    Registered Users Posts: 6,954 ✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121839625#Comment_121839625

    They are not perfect solutions, just snippets and stuff to copy/paste and improve.



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    #7260
    Retr0gamer
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 51,282 CMod ✭✭✭✭Retr0gamer


    I retract my statements that AI can't be creative. If it wasn't for AI I'm pretty we would never have had 'the unknown', an evil chocolate maker that lives in the walls.

    Not even Kojima could have come up with that as a boss fight.

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    #7261
    johnny_ultimate
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,411 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Marty O’Donnell’s ever-downward fall continues, as he goes full MAGA.

    https://www.eurogamer.net/halo-composer-marty-odonnell-announces-republican-bid-for-congress




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