General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

Who in their right mind thought United would get anything from that today?

Thinking it'll happen and hoping it'll happen are different things.

This thread is full of Liverpool fans who are furious and trying to hide it as "being objective about Utd" or whatever excuse. You wouldn't be online at 10pm on a Sunday night talking about a result unless you were annoyed about the result.

Lol not at all. Activity on the thread because serious nonsense been posted

I'm well used to these performances, don't worry about it.

There's nothing silly about it. Post after post from Liverpool fans crying about how bad Utd are. Then trying to act like ye aren't bothered 😂

Ten Hag's biggest issue is his lack of a plan B.

All the great managers can adjust to adverse situations such as an injury crisis etc.

Ten Hag is lost without his first eleven executing his ideas to the letter, even at that his sides haven't been great against top opposition.

All season Ten Hag has been beating the injuries drum, well tough sh1t Erik that's the job suck it up and set your side up properly.

United have been a basket case for a decade, hopefully with INEOS that will be coming to an end but it will take a couple of years to realise that. Ten Hag won't be the manager when that time comes around, regardless of whatever assurances the new bosses are giving him and he's naive if he can't see that.

So its all Ten Haag's fault and then you say United has been problematic for a decade. Which is it?

Pfft, only seeing this now.

Essentially reads like "highly sensitive internal documents or GTFO". Bloody hell.

If he's a symptom then you can't blame him. If the club is going to get back on track then you should give him time to prove himself.

I predicted he'd do well his first season but that the poison at the club could become a problem like it did for every other manager.

Well I don't think he's a bad manager, he's just been stuck in a bad organisation. You cannot perform at your best without the right people around and I'm not just talking about coaches and players. Those involved in football higher up the chain have to be found good work as well.

Nobody has any idea if Ten Haag had any input into the signing of Mount or Sancho. Two England internationals is what a club likes to sign.

The very fact he's previously coached most of his signings would suggest he has the first and final say

I think it’s pretty obvious that signings have been at the discretion of the manager at United for years. They’re squad is a hodge podge of previous managers targets even if they’ve already had players for that position.

Regarding ETH, while it’s clear that the general dysfunction at United hadn’t helped, there’s very little to suggest that he could take them forward if Ratcliffe sorts that out. His signings have been poor especially considering how much they’ve spent, and there’s no discernible style there, certainly nothing like his Ajax days.

He did well last season, 75 points in the league and a trophy was a great first return. But I think he was blessed to have the Ronaldo situation to deal with. An obvious bad egg in the dressing room, having him to cast out and stamp his authority galvanised the team, specifically Rashford.

This season though, he tried the same thing again with Sancho, but it had the opposite effect, and he’s not really been able to do anything about it. The whole season has been at best flashes of form, but zero consistency and a massive regression from last season. Can’t see him lasting there.

ETH previously coached Amrabat, Onana, Antony, Martinez and had tried to sign both Malacia & Mount at Ajax before eventually they signed for him at Man Utd.

ETH's agent, the same agency where his son works, was brought in this summer to 'oversee' some transfers in and out of the club. This included Amrabat, Hojlund and Zidane Igbal (who was sold to a a club ETH previously coached) who all have the same agent. There is another high profile player who has this same agent and only this week has publicly said that ETH tried to sign him for Man Utd - Cody Gakpo, who also used to play in the Dutch league. There was strong links with Man Utd wanting to sign Hojbjerg last summer and yep you guessed it, ETH previously coached him.

There are far too many examples for it to be coincidence.

What it could suggest is that those above him were so incompetent at their jobs that they pissed away summer transfer windows and then panicked and put pressure back on the manager to find a player.

ETH is not a transfer scout. He would have knowledge of players obviously but it isn't his job to find players for the club to sign largely. He should be advising the player profile he needs and then working through a list of players who fit that profile with the transfer team.

Like every other top team in Europe has been doing for 5/10/15 years

Well again, the desire to try and place ETH on Klopp / Pep’s level is understandable, but misplaced. Pep and Klopp had run winning systems at the sharp end of the game for multi season stretches before they arrived at City / Liverpool, respectively.

Ten Haag won a few titles in the Dutch league, but we have seen that not translate before (for both managers and players). His team threw away a CL semi final to Spurs which was his one strong run in Europe (and his CL effort this year argue a case for him being out of his depth tactically against elite competition).

He doesn’t have the pedigree United fans are so desperate to assign him. As such, the nature of his performance in the job this year should be hugely concerning. The board and owners don’t dictate tactical setup; they don’t insert themselves in all of his individual conversations with star players; and they are right to supply him the players he says he wants. The owners had to go and the current United squad isn’t good enough; but a more able manager is clearly needed, if you just focus on his own inputs.

I think you can safely let this guy go tbh, it’s not going to be a “what if” moment, his best days are not ahead of him.

While all that is true, and I agree with you that the transfer decisions should have been taken out of his hands. Obviously have some input, but not be the main voice. A proper set up provides recommendations or advice and then manager can have a say. A recruitment team is better than a recruitment person in most ways.

But isn't it also true that the chief scout at Man United had lined up a deal for Pau Torres in 2022 and ETH refused to sign him, got his way and Man United singed Martinez instead? One of his first signings and throws his weight around like that. it sets the tone really. Can the scouts continue to recommend players with confidence after that?

There have been many stories over the years (long before ETH came in) of players being identified by Utd scouts and then the club not moving on them. There is a massive disconnect between what the scouts are doing and then what is happening with what they are feeding back. Again, it feeds back to the same problems at the club.

That first summer in particular I think the club leaned on ETH more than it should have and that was likely because we had not prepared the correct transfer targets for him to change the squads style of play. It looked from the outside that the club did feck all before he officially started.

I can understand under the circumstances why ETH would go with the player he knew could do what he wanted from his CB.

The second summer amazingly we somehow didn't get it much better - a shocking level of incompetence really

This is one of INEOS biggest challenges really. They have to drag the club into the modern day after so many years of falling behind everyone else.

Arsenal had an early red card in that game. Backing Arteta has worked out for Arsenal, that doesn't mean every side should back every manager in case it works out for them too.

If you have to release a video explaining how a cup competition works then you have made it too complicated.

Apparently the last two times a Manchester United manager lost 12 games in a season, they were fired. This loss was Man Utd's 11th this season.

A league table works because everyone who is in it must play everyone else.

You wouldn't look at the PL and La Liga at the end of the season and crown a winner based on who got more points from each league. It doesn't make sense.

So using a league table to place teams who haven't played against the same teams doesn't make any sense.

For the results to have sporting integrity they must be compared within the same conditions.

It's just baffling how they came to this being the best option.

If they want more games then maybe making it one big European competition knockout all the way would be better but that puts their biggest names at risk so...