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Ireland - now considered one of most vulnerable countries in the EU (defense wise)

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,614 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande



    The reason the Irish military is sized as it is and the primary purpose of the Irish military is to protect the government from enemies within the state, aka paramilitary organisations such as the IRA or INLA. Drug gangs in Ireland have not gotten to Mexican Sinaloa cartel levels of organisation, Garda armed response units are able to keep them in check. It would be a different story if we land a land border with the main European continent with no geographical barriers to impede an invader, we are not, we are an island sitting on the edge of Western Europe.

    Irelands primary security problem is ensuring the supply of food & energy to enable our populations life support systems, being at the end of the supply line we can be cut off first. Most people don't realise what a war economy is, restrictions on Irelands civilian consumption during the world war II emergency have been forgotten. Most people in Ireland have no concept of rationing and how difficult it becomes for Ireland to secure materials from abroad when continental countries activity is focused on war. The big takeaway from previous world wars is the sheer amount of materials and men needed to fight modern industrial scale war.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,643 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Ireland needs to beef up defence as we pretty much have none. The starting point should be cyber security and move on then to the air and sea. In parallel, we should have something there to monitor whats going on in our territory at least. If we knew, can always call the RAF/whoever to sort it out but at least we'd know.

    We should build houses/schools/etc. The problem they aren't there isn't because we are/aren't spending it on defence. We're pissing away money to bate the band on fluff anyway.

    People whinging about the cost haven't mentioned the governments plans to install offshore wind at a guesstimate cost of €100bn (so said Eamonn Ryan). All that infrastructure will need protecting too and that is ours (if the argument the cables aren't)



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    F**k me but a thread about Irish army and somehow you manage to link it back to green Policies and Eamonn Ryan

    The obsession with Ryan for some people really is disturbing at this stage.

    In terms of Cyber Security we have already invested in Cyber Security. By the way Cyber Security is fairly useless if you have no electricity for the computers :-)

    https://www.ncsc.gov.ie/



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    This is the latest in a long line of things to get outraged about.

    Honestly I couldn't give a f**k, the majority of the population don't give a f**k and even if they created an army tomorrow morning the people on here complaining about having no army would in reality be the last ones to get from behind the keyboard to join.

    We are a small country which is part of Europe. We have protection from Europe in first instance. IN second instance we have ties with the US and that will help protect us. You can argue all you want about how true that is but I refer back to my statement earlier about not giving a f**k.

    What exactly are people going to invade us for? we have no oil/gas. No large manufacturing?

    We are after all an island at the arse end of Europe and no direct connection to UK or Europe for land travel. So you have captured an island and if the plan is to invade Europe/UK you still need to figure out how to get to those regions. You are also stuck on an island which can other countries can bomb the poo out of from every direction.

    Now Im sure you will all be outraged with this opinion but again I refer back to me and majority of population not giving a f**k.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,643 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    I just mentioned the wind thing as a way to show money is being spent on stuff on a scale far greater than what's being discussed here for some defence. Plus we'd have to try protect that infrastructure too once built. It's in no way a dig t Ryan or green policies. I was just highlighting we plan to spend untold billions for one thing, but folks are saying spending more than we do on defence is a waste.

    Taiwan is an island and is being eyed up by a bigger neighbour. Being an island isn't a reason for someone not to cause trouble. Didn't Russia and indeed the US have plans on how to bomb the place to bits if either decided to setup shop here in the not too distant past?

    I think any issues we have here will be digital where the things we depend on day in and day out will be hacked/destroyed leaving us in a bit of a bind. Few disruptions to port infrastructure and we're doubly screwed. It wouldn't take much to knock us out unfortunately.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 248 ✭✭Randycove


    Probably.

    it does mean however, that Irish air traffic control needs the help of the RAF to escort these planes, as they are flying through commercial air lanes without transponders on and are therefore a massive hazard to commercial air traffic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Well that ramble made zero sense. First off the reason why Ukraine got invaded are well known and discussed.

    Can you point to the health records on the web for everyone? I haven't seen them

    As I said people don't give a f**k, your faux outrage doesn't change that. Give me a shout when you join the Irish army to defend Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭SheepsClothing


    I'm happy enough for the military to be beefed up, as long as the patriots in favour of it in this thread are the ones who get conscripted to service and man our new fleet of naval attack vessels and submarines.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    If countries are planning on blowing up wind turbines then we are in big trouble :-)

    The obsession with Ryan is hilarious to be honest



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,545 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Not a single one of them will be the member of this new beefed up army

    The same ones will be still behind the keyboard in 6 months time complaining because taxes have gone up to pay for this army :-)

    The merry go round of the permanently outraged is funny to be honest



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,643 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    We would be! Denmark have a defence force that can be sent to protect their turbines. If Ireland builds these, we'll become more dependent on them for power. They'd need protecting some way. Look at Ukraine and they started protecting their energy infrastructure after it was targeted in Winter '22. I think we should be able to at least know if something was fluting around hat stuff. https://news.yahoo.com/media-russia-possibly-preparing-sabotage-072335139.html

    We just need to be aware



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    I would guess the poster meant heavy industrial manufacturing as opposed to drugs, medical devices and pharma.

    All of which really are FDI dependent one has to add.

    So really we have fook all indigenous manufacturing of any kind.

    Ehh you will find they would have faired a hell of a lot worse without US/UK and EU aid.

    Their military had been retraining since Crimea invasion and have moved away from the old Soviet style Red Army tactics and layout.

    Hence why they were able to do so well early in the war to counter Russian attack.

    Also their Western air defenses prevented Kyiv being turned into Grozny.


    I do agree we need to stand on our own two feet with some semblance of a proper defense force.

    And no that does not mean buying Typhoons, F22 or F35s as the leftists always resort to in snide condescension or the milmos start drooling about.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 248 ✭✭Randycove


    No one is going to be conscripted.

    it isn’t even about more people in the military, it is giving those people the tools to do their job properly and making our defence forces an attractive place to work.

    we have a fleet of trainers that are designed to train pilots in high speed aircraft, before moving on to jets. Except we don’t have any, so we just have a very expensive display team that train pilots on behalf of Ryanair and Aer Lingus. It isn’t about having pilots, it’s about giving them something to fly.

    as has already been pointed out, we don’t have any heavy lift aircraft, so we are dependent on the French or British pulling our citizens out of trouble spots. We have a very highly trained ranger wing, who can fly anywhere in the world and carry out rescue missions to help Irish citizens, providing someone else can give them a lift.

    we have gaping capability gaps in our defence forces and these gaps are what leave us exposed, not the lack of personnel.

    people are talking about seaborne invasions being unlikely, but the reality is, half a dozen Ilyushin aircraft could land at Dublin airport and take control pretty much unhindered.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,945 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    Reduction to absurdity - we can't hope to stop a determined invasion force of a military power -> no point spending anything else extra!

    You're not in the Irish defence forces and not going to join up so you've no right to say anything about defence spending (gotcha! stick that in your pipe...).

    Such weak arguments.

    You're not going to become a civil servant [in Justice], a politician, a garda/border guard/airport/port police, a doctor, a nurse tomorrow...so you've no right to whine "Ireland is full" or moan about the state of the HSE...that would shut down so much "debate" in this forum right away. Maybe we'd be better off for it 😀



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭SheepsClothing


    Basically all of the former Soviet states that people want us to model our defence spending on, utilise conscription to populate their defence forces. So if we pursue that route, the little Timmy's and Jenny's of the world won't be going to college, or taking a gap year after their leaving cert. instead they'll be entering basic training, ahead of a two year stint in the military.

    Now if your plan is to spend less than the former Soviet bloc states, who themselves aren't spending enough to adequately defend from a Russian invasion without significant intervention from their allies, then what's the point? In the event of the outbreak of WW3 (which is the only scenario whereby Ireland would be invaded), we would be a sitting duck anyway, barring the US military stationing their navy and troops here.

    And on the point about the air defences. Due to our geography, a fleet of Russian military aircraft would need to pass through the airspace of a whole host of NATO/EU member states before they could come anywhere near Dublin airport. If they weren't turned around, or shot down before reaching us, we'd have ample warning to scramble ground defences before they could land.



  • Registered Users Posts: 743 ✭✭✭techman1


    Weaken the left wing bias"? Wow thats some speech in favour of a military junta?!


    You know the military are meant to stay impartial and not be a political entity.. That way leads to military dictatorship


    Never realised the danger was so strong from within. 😯

    Of course you are mis reading and exaggerating the point I was making. By their nature people who serve in the military probably lean to the right, but because we have such a small low status military, the military voices in Ireland are very quiet in comparison to our European compatriots. This allows a strong left wing bias to propagate throughout government and media without a competing narrative. For example there are no military voices in our government, this is very unusual by European standards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 248 ✭✭Randycove


    They fly through Irish airspace now, without being shot down. If they suddenly did a left turn at Mayo and headed for Dublin, or even landed at Shannon, what’s to stop them?



  • Registered Users Posts: 323 ✭✭SheepsClothing


    They are intercepted and turned around by the RAF. That's how we know they've entered our airspace in the first place.

    But just to play out the outlandish scenario, where a small group of Russian personnel carriers land in Dublin Airport. Let's say they land and the few hundred, or so soldiers manage to take control of the airport. Maybe they even make inroads into the city. Then what?

    They won't have any artillery, tanks, or fighter jets to launch attacks on Britain. They have no way of moving their Navy into Irish waters, without being intercepted by the Royal Navy, so it's only a matter of time before they get killed or captured, by either Irish forces or by one of our allies.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,726 ✭✭✭brickster69


    Stop who the Russians ? WTF would they want to invade Ireland for ?

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."





  • How much income do those sites produce ? What are they worth to the economy? You're talking directly several hundred billion per year and huge repetitional damage if they were cut and out of service for weeks.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,850 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    That includes us ..

    European Commission presents first-ever defense industrial strategy at EU level




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,726 ✭✭✭brickster69


    I wonder who came up with the idea to put sanctions on Chinese exports of the material needed to make shells ? It is no good making shells without having the material to make gunpowder is it ?

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,253 ✭✭✭threeball


    We could buy 50 of these guys and have them circuit the coast constantly. They can operate autonomously or manned and can fire rockets or run surveillance. Add in some decent radar and you'd have a decent little defence system. Maybe a Bayraktar or similar for longer range surveillance




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,348 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    Any idea of their price ? The minister of defence should be all over this. Russia having , seemingly, live fire manoeuvres off the south is scary . And for those depending on the US if Trump gets back in his recent statements about countries not paying their way doesn't bode well



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