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What would Irish infrastructure look like now if Germany won the war and wanted Ireland to prosper

  • 05-03-2024 4:50pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭


    Would it be the neglected land it is today with no short,medium,or long term planning?

    When would a fast transport system from Ireland's main airport to every part of the country have happened?

    Would it take decades to build a new children's hospital in the capital of Ireland ?



«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,369 ✭✭✭✭Jim_Hodge


    I assume your own responses would be Yes, Yes, No.

    Personally I haven't a clue as there are far too many variables.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,104 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 654 ✭✭✭Sonic the Shaghog


    If I remember from reading years ago, Hitler didn't see the Irish as subhuman, but not exactly perfect specimens either.

    So it's possible we would be some sort of manufacturing hub tolerated for the Reich or we could also be used as similar to what we do now with beef etc

    In saying that himself was a vegetarian and big into animal rights so he could have done an Eamon Ryan and made us cut the herd too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,050 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    Hmm, well perhaps the best way to find out would be to look at all the fantastic infrastructure the Nazi's built in the countries they occupied

    If you're now struggling to find any examples, it's because they didn't build anything in the countries they occupied and instead robbed those countries of the majority of their wealth while subjugating the population into varying degrees of slavery

    Unless you were Slavic, they just shot you in that case

    So the simple answer is that things would be great if you were a postwar German settler in occupied Ireland and otherwise crap for the native Irish

    There might be decent infrastructure, although the Nazis intent for Ireland was to become a sort of agricultural breadbasket, which doesn't need high speed railways

    But, you can bet the Irish wouldn't be allowed to use any of it

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭Fritzbox


    Would it be the neglected land it is today with no short,medium,or long term planning?

    Ireland is not a neglected land today with no short, medium or long term planning. Who says that?

    When would a fast transport system from Ireland's main airport to every part of the country have happened?

    There is a fast transport system from Dublin airport - the motorways.

    Would it take decades to build a new children's hospital in the capital of Ireland ?

    How many Children's hospitals in Poland, France or Greece did Hitler build in the 1940s, and how long did he take to build them?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 926 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    Plans for Dublin:




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,609 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    What a strange thread ,

    neutral ireland may have sailed a path through a german led post war worlld ,

    The Reich did build infrastructure in captive land , they built an auto-bahn straight across poland , obviously it wasnt for polands benefit , it was heading straight to the eastern front .

    Ireland would have been ,a small english speaking island with no industry,and an undeveloped farming sector , off the far west of europe

    I cant imagine that a german europe would have been funding anything in ireland ,

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,218 ✭✭✭nachouser


    Would we be better off if we were ruled by Nazi Germany is not something I thought I'd be seeing on the Internet today.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,757 ✭✭✭sxt


    That's not the question that was asked..

    The question was

    What would Irish infrastructure look like now if Germany won the war and wanted Ireland to prosper ?

    I.e What would the infrastructure of Ireland look like if it had the urban planning,engineering and technology expertise and a government that was willing to invest and modernise the infrastructure of the land to make it prosper look like? and they had 80 years to do it....


    The only reason that Ireland doesn't have a crumbling infrastructure now is because it joined the Eu in the 1970s and the E.U helped invest and plan and construct...


    Travellers waiting on a bus or a taxi from the airport to get onto the m50 motorway isn't a high speed network... is there any country in Western Europe that doesn't have a railway from the main airport?

    Post edited by sxt on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭Notmything


    Cause neutrality would deter Hitler, like how it worked for Denmark, Norway, Belgium, Netherlands etc.

    Very much doubt Ireland would have been left alone considering part of it was in the UK. Besides controlling Ireland would deny it's use to the Americans.

    Hitler didn't exactly have the best of intentions for the bits of Europe he did conquer so not sure why Ireland would have been any different.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,218 ✭✭✭nachouser


    I'd say we'd all have lovely looking uniforms and the trains would definitely be better, but not everyone would like their destination.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,450 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Why would they want Ireland to prosper OP ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,412 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    I’d say the infrastructure would be amazing , it would to be to the Tiger Tanks to Cavan.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭gym_imposter


    Far less ribbon development in rural Ireland



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,394 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Ireland would have been used for our lands and food that's it. We would all be farmers off some type and all probably poor too. They would take all our food and leave us with little just like the British did.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,490 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,724 ✭✭✭Badly Drunk Boy


    In saying that himself was a vegetarian and big into animal rights so he could have done an Eamon Ryan and made us cut the herd too.

    Yes, you're 100% right. Eamon Ryan is a modern day Hitler. 😜



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,771 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Nazi Germany didn't want any of the countries it conquered or occupied to prosper. It basically wanted to loot them to sustain the (non-viable) economic policies being pursued in Germany itself.

    The OP's speculation about what a victorious Nazi Germany would have wanted is as off-beam as his perception of the current state of Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Even in 1847, statistics show the British imported more food in to Ireland than exported food. In 1847, at the height of the Famine, Ireland exported 39,000 tonnes of wheat, and 98,000 tonnes of oats , and imported 199,000 tonnes of wheat, 12,000 tonnes of oats and 682,000 tonnes of maize.

    Do not believe everything you were taught.

    Back to the thread title,  Hitler did not care for the neutrality of many neutral countries he invaded. He invaded neutral countries, sent many there ( Jews, the disabled, gypsies, homesexuals etc ) to extermination camps and used others as slave labour. He would have done the same in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,334 ✭✭✭Hangdogroad


    More swastikas and military parades.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,490 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    We had a lucky escape back in the day. Hitler planned to make the IRA a puppet government in Dublin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 38 julio fun him


    Rubbish. So the landmass / island of Ireland would’ve mysteriously vanished?



  • Registered Users Posts: 638 ✭✭✭Baba Yaga


    id say the bundespolizei (they wouldnt be called an garda siochana thats for sure!) and the army would have designer styled uniforms and lots of guns and would probably be german born and bred...us irish would be either farming and digging the land under gunpoint or shipped off for a bit of a shower...


    "They gave me an impossible task,one which they said I wouldnt return from...."

    ps wheres my free,fancy rte flip-flops...?

    pps wheres my wheres my rte macaroons,kevin?

    "You are him…the one they call the "Baba Yaga"…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,569 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    It would be a sort of human zoo exhibit/holiday resort for tweedy jacketed Nazi "intellectuals" studying Race Theory. They'd liquidate problematic authors, artists and politicians and our tiny Jewish population and keep the rest of us for ethnographic study.

    Any transport, hotels etc would be reserved for the wealthy master race.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭victor8600


    Exactly. Nazi Germany's economic policies were disastrous, the war was being used to cover up for the ineptitude of Nazi's government. Let's consider Greece as an example of a conquered state. Hitler actually regarded Greeks as almost equal to Germans, and didn't want to exterminate them. Greece's was conquered without much infrastructure damage. And yet 600 thousand Greeks died of hunger and related diseases during the German occupation. In Greece, where there was never a problem with growing food or fishing the sea.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,362 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    We'd have far more trains but they wouldn't work on time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,483 ✭✭✭Hoop66


    Hitler was neither a vegetarian, nor was he "big into animal rights". He ate meat, he was just advised not to by his doctors because of his terrible bowels. His "vegetarianism" & his "teetotalism" (he drank alcohol) was part of Goebbels plan to make him appear more like Ghandi, less like Churchill.

    As for the animal rights, yes Germany brought in strict animal welfare laws, but they were designed to make it difficult for Jews & Muslims to obtain meat as their religious strictures around slaughter were what the laws prohibited.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,362 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    I can't see them outsourcing manufacturing from the Ruhr valley to Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,487 ✭✭✭LambshankRedemption


    A point my father made to me a few years ago. One of the reasons infrastructure in Germany is so good now is because Germany was pretty much flattened during WW2. Its much easier to build straight roads and modern buildings when you have a blank canvas to start with.

    As others have said, under German rule, I'd expect modern Ireland to be one big field, feeding the rest of Europe.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,771 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Not at all. Hitler regarded Ireland as basically an adjunct to Great Britain, and the Nazis had earmarked Dublin as one of six regional centres from which occupied Großbrittanien would be administered. They did envisage using local collaborators (as well as, and subordinate to, German officials) in the administration but they did not regard the IRA as an especially useful asset in this regard.

    In other occupied countries the Nazis mostly sought collaborators either from the local Fascist movement (which was tiny in Ireland) or from more traditional conservative and anti-Bolshevik elements. The local Fascists would be the more enthusiastic collaborators, but frequently not very competent, while the conservatives approached the matter more reluctantly - in a "we are where we are, have to make the best of it, do what we can to alleviate the worst aspects of occupation, lesser of two evils" kind of spirit.

    Post edited by Peregrinus on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,353 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    Godwinned in the thread title, even before Post #1

    Impressive !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,456 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Ireland has gone from a 97% agricultural based economy to 3% in that space of time. That is an amazing turn around and no matter what people think it was well done and organised. Our population is also still not recovered from the famine yet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,353 ✭✭✭keeponhurling


    In modern Germany, the transport systems are now aged and unreliable. Even the cities look aged.

    And remember, facilities and infrastructure need people to use them, which rely on population. You can't be comparing Ballinrobe with Frankfurt, like. Compare with a small German town.

    Post edited by keeponhurling on


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 17,994 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    Contrary to popular belief, Germany isn't highly efficient. Their new airport, for example, was delivered 9 years late and €4 billion over budget - their equivalent of the "only in Ireland" Children's hospital fiasco.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,230 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    what we were thought was fact, the intention was genocide by the british.

    the famine was a genocide, deliberately so.

    what was imported and exported was irrelevant as the irish were prohibited from accessing it.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Bob Marley Park


    Well the Nazis built some great infrastructure......

    We'd have been dirt on the soles of their shoes. I picture 1984, with our children ratting us out for laughing too much.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,845 ✭✭✭buried


    "What would Irish infrastructure look like now if Germany won the war and wanted Ireland to prosper"

    You are currently living it OP. A vassal state ran by foreign entities who allow thicks to run the island into the ground as long as the supremacist foreign superior state isn't threatened.

    So, it would be the exact same $hitshow we have now.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,490 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    The famine was certainly was not deliberate genocide. It was caused by huge population growth in the few generations before that, reliance on one crop, the potato blight etc. Do not forget that even in 1847, statistics show the British imported more food in to Ireland than exported food. In 1847, at the height of the Famine, Ireland exported 39,000 tonnes of wheat, and 98,000 tonnes of oats , and imported 199,000 tonnes of wheat, 12,000 tonnes of oats and 682,000 tonnes of maize. The food imported did not evaporate.

    If it was genocide people would not have been allowed to emigrate in numbers to Glasgow, Liverpool etc.

    Now get back to the thread topic and less diverting please.

    Have you even been to Europe to see the concentration camps there, remnants of Nazi infrastructure? Read books on the holocaust and the war? I have.



  • Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Tornaxx


    Have you even been to Europe to see the concentration camps there, remnants of Nazi infrastructure? Read books on the holocaust and the war? I have.

    Have you ever been to the sites of the British concentration camps in South Africa from the Boer war? Another attempt at genocide.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Rubbish. I have studied the subject and talked to numerous south Africans about that. The concentration camps you refer to were for Boers there around 1900. They didn’t have the same aims as Adolf Hitler’s extermination camps during the Second World War. If they did, why would the Afrikaner-led government of Louis Botha in South Africa unhesitatingly have joined the side of the British in World War I and fought alongside its armies? South Africa was part of significant military operations against Germany and the Axis powers in both WW1 and WW2.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,230 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    it was a deliberate genocide.

    one of the aspects of genocide is forced displacement which the emigration due to the famine was.

    now suck it up that your belovid british empire was a racist sectarian entity.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Bob Marley Park


    You can't Godwin a discussion on Nazi Germany.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,230 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    they did have the exact same aims.

    the african parts of the british empire had no say in whether they faught for the british or not.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 85 ✭✭Bob Marley Park


    At best it was British indifference to Irish famine.

    Why the reliance on one crop? Was it St. Brendan on his way back over, brought the potatoes?

    Who was in charge of the country?

    The British invented concentration camps.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    You have not a clue what you are talking about. You mention about the camps in South Africa but you fail to understand it was white people in them, who the British were fighting between 1899 and 1902. If mortality in those camps was higher than mortality outside the camps, those same people would not have volunteered without complaint to serve alongside the British only a dozen years or so later in WW1, in a war far away.

    Quote: " With a population of roughly 6 million, between 1914 and 1918 over 250,000 South Africans of all races voluntarily served their country. Thousands more served in the British Army directly, with over 3,000 joining the British Royal Flying Corps and over 100 volunteering for the Royal Navy.[72] It is likely that near 50% of white men of military age served during the war. More than 146,000 whites, 83,000 black Africans and 2,500 Coloureds and Asians served in either German South-West Africa, East Africa, the Middle East, or on the Western Front in Europe. "

    Not do not insult the victims of the Nazi extermination and concentration camps further, some of whom were rescued / liberated by the British army, which comprised of people from Ireland as well from Britain, and as well as many other countries around the world. Get back to the thread and no more deflecting please.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Ehh they built Atlantic wall in France.

    U-boat pens in Lorient that are still there today.

    Bunkers in Poland, roads through Poland.

    They didn't just Slavs, they wanted to use them as slave labour.

    English looked down their noses at us and English were seen by Hitler as being of old Anglo Saxon stock and more like Nordic Aryan.

    We would be yet more Untermenschen to be worked to death.

    Forget neutral Ireland.

    Once Britain fell, Northern Ireland and then us would be taken in days.

    Ports would be built, u-boat pens would be built to defend and control the Atlantic.

    We would become some Lebensraum to the West.

    We would be on the front line with US and Canada.

    We would have our own Atlantic Wall rather than Atlantic Way.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,569 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    It does not meet the strict definition of a genocide, most professional historians agree on this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,230 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    they weren't given a choice.

    they were fighting with the british whether they wanted to or not.

    they were kept in concentration camps because they were saw as being lesser.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,230 ✭✭✭✭end of the road



    i'm satisfied that it does.

    enough of the aspects are there.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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