Deposit return scheme (recycling)

Subsidy comes from re-turn's funds; not the state. That comes from the producers, unclaimed deposits and materials value - the producers carrying the can if the other two run seriously low (which would require a huge return rate and a crash in the value of aluminium).

Also, 6k wouldn't cover the full cost of purchase, install and operation over the 3 year period so it isn't an automatic money maker - you still need people to use the machine to make any money from it.

So, they get a subsidy of 6k if they don't reach 250,000 but reach 249,999. Then they get 2.2 cents or more per item if manual returns are involved. A lot of the machines mentioned here cost approx 11k so do the maths on that. Not that they would use the first year to play the system or anything, big supermarkets wouldn't do that now. Would they 🤔

Its 3k in the first year, 2k in the second, 1k in the first - 6k in total.

Anywhere taking 250k returns is getting 5500 in payments anyway.

No retailer is going to risk having their ability to take returns (if under the floor size limit) taken off them; or be prosecuted for not fulfilling their requirements to make 3k (minus whatever returns they lose in the time they deliberately turn the machine off).

Ok, so if they get 5.5k in the first year anyway if reaching the target and get 2.2c + per returned item chances are the machine is paid for in full at the end of year 1 so the rest is pure profit afterwards.

Maybe not pure profit but it will be a profitable exercise for them after 2 years so.

The monetary value of a can is under 2c. The monetary value of a PET bottle isn't calculable. As I said, Lidl were paying far, far more out from their marketing budget.

Take running costs off that you and you'll be paying people a cent per few cans and charging them to take the PET.

So to bring that up to 10c, someone has to pay you for it using your own money one way or another - tax or increased costs.

It wouldn't even be 2c, though - that's my point. It might be 1c for three if you're covering the running costs of the scheme; and a negative value for bottles. Nobody would partake in that.

The good reason is money - you haven't suggested where you think funding would come from, because it sure as hell is not going to come from the recycling value of the materials.

Lidl spent their own money for their own reasons; and all that's come of it is people thinking that cans and bottles are actually valuable. It was a very, very bad idea for them do that.

Any deposit free system would need piles and piles of funding, which you'd be paying for one way or another. That's why it was never going to happen; and never will happen.

And if it was done at the start, we'd still have moaning about when a deposit came in "why are you making me pay now, you gave me money free before" etc, etc. A very, very bad idea.

Even more people would (inaccurately and baselessly) go around calling it a scam, be convinced the cans/bottles were innately valuable and piles of money would have been spent to just have even louder complains to Liveline.

i made aldi empty one of their RVM's today

We know they aren't zero. We also know they were losing money on every payment they made - because the scrap value was so, so much less than they were paying out - in the hope that it would bring customers to the shop; which isn't sustainable without putting shop prices up to cover it.

My entire post was about a notional get-a-return-for-nothing scheme like Lidl are running, so yes, you were picking me up wrong.

Ok, but that doesn't negate the point of the cost of running the machines versus the profits made from them after 2 years providing the returns actually make it to being recycled and not sold off for incineration.

You don't think having to spend or redeem a voucher in a shop that is only accepted in that shop won't benefit shops? Yes, some chains have allowed vouchers to be used in other stores but most haven't so that in itself is a win win for certain chains. Most of these machines are in the lobby spaces or outside not on the shop floors that I encountered so not much selling space lost.

It was mentioned pages back about a certain store restricting when you can get your voucher redeemed for cash but as usual even after posting a picture of the notice on the notice board people wanted more proof! That is one way to get footfall into your shop at slow times and capitalise on the scheme.

I think I will leave you to it, because in your eyes this scheme is perfect and you won't even acknowledge most of the obvious flaws or possible benefits to supermarkets being pointed out.

1,333 cans @15c

Do you work for waste collectors?