Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

He will wait until after todays session, but he will put something out this evening.

Exactly this, I just find it ironic how its Ireland that are the team accused of bottling it. Even looking at the way two sides have responded to the fairly show's who the real bottle jobs were, France let the occasion get to them and now are broken as a result Ireland on the other hand did not and in the end just lost to the better side on the day and have responded like how you'd expect a great side to respond.

1st time in yonks that I really aren't excited playing England. I probably will watch it. Still haven't watched the match v Wales.

Not at all. Just tired of the false dawns. It blows. A six nations glosses over the fact that once again we crapped the bed when it matters.

Just the hangover of another failure when it mattered!

These are the quotes I referred to. He did indeed say that he didn't watch the Wales game and would probably watch the England game. He mentioned crapping the bed when it matters. So can you point out where i was posting in bad faith.

If Ireland had beaten the kiwis, I'd have been thrilled. But we fell short again! No matter how. We fell flat. We lost a great game of rugby to a very good side, no shame in that. This world cup was our chance to break the curse, we didn't and I'm deflated. It's my thoughts and just how I feel. No disrespect intended to anyone on here, if I feel and think this 6nations is secondary. You're all free to think your own way and to support the team. I'm just Hungover from that loss and this 6nations is in my opinion, muck.

It's not a trial. I don't need CSI. It's my opinion.

Alternatively if anyone thinks Wales/Italy or England are good teams have at it. My eyes are the evidence.

Well most team's that win their pool at a RWC don't have to play a team of NZL standard in a QF. You might have a point if Ireland got their asses handed to them but they lost a close game, idk how anyone can watch that match and come to the conclusion that they are bottlers...do you think if Ireland had a normal quarter final, i.e like Wales & England had in 2019 or 2023, this year that Ireland would have lost with that level of performance? 2011 & 2015 were definetly bottle jobs, 2019 the entire year was a bottle job never mind the tournament but that isn't the case in 2023.

You know what this debate needs? Some good old pseudo contrarian, "all I'm saying is" energy.

I'm happy to help.

Ireland did not "bottle it" or "choke" in the world cup. However I'm increasingly convinced that the counter narrative is going too far the other way. That is, in the context of gleeful mockery by the "HAHA WORLD CUP BOTTLERS" Delegation (HWCBD), defenders of the Irish side have mostly settled on a narrative of "thems the breaks", "we lost a close game", "NZ are a great team", "if Kelleher scores that try", "it is what it is".

We lost to a very good team, but it was still an upset. And I think that aspect is being lost in the above counter narrative. Argentina are currently ranked #1 in men's Soccer. If they had lost to Belgium (#4) in a soccer World Cup quarter final, the world would have considered that an upset. Argentina would be hugely disappointed and would need to find out why a team inferior to them (albeit marginally) beat them in a hugely important game. And nobody would consider this a hysterical over reaction.

But such reflection seems less accepted for Irish rugby. And I get it, the HWCBD are insufferable. You are reluctant to give them an inch. But as time rolls on, and as we dismantle opposition in this years Six Nations, it does hold our RWC exit in context. And I think outright acceptance of the latter is itself guilty of undervaluing ourselves in the present moment. And ultimately guilty too of allowing a very irritating cohort to indirectly control a narrative.

The handicap for the Ireland v NZL game was only 3-4 points if I'm not mistaken, based on you're definition its an upset but by most people's definition it's not, that sort of handicap is nothing and is suggesting the game is too close to call.

The context is in 21 matches Ireland have won 20 and the one loss was a one score defeat in a game that could have gone either way. One game simply isnt enough information to go on to make any sort of conclusion unless it's just trying to fufill a narrative, which many on here are trying (namely TRC and Dubinusa).

Again it's an opinion. But just to point out the fact that France are absolutely muck. Drew with the Azzurri! I fully expect Ireland to win this week. They should do comfortably.

The betting handicaps are certainly one way to assess the degree of upset. But they would also be pricing in market expectation of an upset given that it was Ireland in a QF in the RWC. Anyone's guess as to how many points that took from the spread.

Fact is, as you say, we had won close to 20 games in a row, were #1 in the world, had beaten the team then ranked #2 in the pool stage, faced a team ranked #4 where we had recently won a tour. Removing the context of the QF, that speaks to a likelihood of victory higher than what a 3-4 point spread would predict, imo.

But we lost. And I'd rather not capitulate to trolls, reflect on it maturely, acknowledge the disappointment, and identify the specifics of what went wrong. (Podge lists one such reason above).

You misread me. I'm not saying what you are implying. My hopes for this 6nations are well below usual standards, due to the loss at the world cup.

Ireland should and will complete a grand slam. They are the best team involved... by a big margin. I'm just not as invested this time. I've been unable to get past the loss. I would say there's similar feelings in N.Z.

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