Referendum on Gender Equality (THREADBANS IN OP)

I have the impression Baker was a government adviser prior to the referendum, she seems to be very positive on most of it and brushes off negatives by saying those are questions for future referendums.

And she convinced me to vote No

Exactly I am well aware of that, which makes me question some of her effusiveness on any positive and brushing away some negative's by saying that is for the future. Her tone is similar to Mary McAleese's address to the National Women's council. Crusade like a step in the journey attitude etc

No one can be 100% positive on something like that without having advised the government on it in my opinion.

Big full page Q and A with her in the Irish times a view days ago, although she was representing the Electoral Commisson. She is clearly leaning YES in all but name.

She did not mention any potential conflicts for example between the protection of marriage and durable relationships which would be viewed as the foundation of the family.

She brushed off concerns about the care referendum by saying it is not a carer's referendum etc

Most notably she said when asked is the constitution just symbolism she said. I would not say symbolism it is about values.

Then ended the article with vote the way you want.

McDowell was arguing for that even during the Oireachtas debates but the Government guillotined the debates because ….ehhh….International Womens Day!

Here’s my guess. Roderick and some extreme elements within the Greens were controlling this process and wanted the most “inclusive” language possible I.e. “families” means whatever your into at the moment. FF/FF killed the Citizens Assembly proposal on carers because they hate the idea of judges telling the Government to spend more. As a compromise, FF/FG let the Greens have “durable relationships”. The Opposition parties didn’t want to challenge the “elite consensus” but SF will have a major post-Mortem if these referendums fail.

So we have BS amendments supported by every single party politician and opposed by growing numbers of ordinary people who had no interest in Article 41 until these referendums.

A No,No result would be a masive wake-up call to the political establishment.

Will it though? It's been apparent since the second divorce referendum that there's a huge, 'right wing' in various senses, constituency out there largely to overwhelmingly unrepresented within the political system but the political system has pretty much ignored that constituency and carried on trucking. You guys want to vote down a European treaty or two? Okay we'll just keep making you vote again until you come up with the 'right' answer...

It would be handy if Mr Perfect himself, Neale Richmond, clarified what he meant, before the polls open tomorrow. I suspect he's been gagged.

You'd have to wonder what FG can do with someone as inept as McEntee now. She's been out of her depth on literally every TV appearance I can remember.

TY debate rote-learning stuff last night. Playing a character, we knew it, she knew it and you could tell she spent the week impatiently hoping for Wednesday night to be over

She is not allowed advise the government as she is a Supreme Court judge. That would be a fairly incredible scandal if she was.

Your claim that the Constitution(read as a whole document) guarantees the State must do as much as possible to ensure woman don't work is wrong. I'm happy to leave at that.

If a referendum if being run I doubt there would be a massive cost to asking an additional question. But it is fairly low down the list anyway.

There will be an obligation on the government to strive to support the provision of care by family members. There is currently no obligation on the government to do that. The woman taking the current case would be in a position to take the case on whether the State is vidicating its Constitutional obligation to do that. But it will go further, by allowing people beyond mothers take a case.

It was a ridiculous thing to say by ROG. However, the disability organisations are not supporting the referendum as they aren't calling for a Yes vote. So there would be no difference in calling for a No vote.

I think they are in a very difficult position. The amendment provides some onus on the government to support the care provided by family members to a famiky member with a disability but it also excludes people outside of scope.

I think we'll see quite an urban/ rural divide and an age divide. To generalise: rural and older people voting NO, younger and urban voting Yes.

But biggest factor will be who'll be bothered to vote and here I'll put my money on those who are definite Nos and rural/ older people.

So I reckon both will be defeated 65/35

I know loads in their 20s/30s voting No to this. I don’t know anyone voting yes to both in fact

Is there not a moratorium on referendum reporting/canvassing the day before a vote or is that just for general elections?

Or has it been gotten rid of?

Paddy Power has the family referendum as a slight favourite to pass, they have the care referendum as 50:50.

My guess is the family referendum will pass, the care referendum won't.

Moratorium starts 2 pm