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Tenant claiming notice of termination is invalid

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 717 ✭✭✭Yeah Right


    RTB make it up as they go along, I wouldn't put much stock in what they say.

    I issued a tenant with a termination notice of about 3 months that was subsequently deemed invalid due to a small typo/error. Tenant didn't say anything until the day before the notice was up, raised a case with RTB. Case took place about another 2 months later, first thing I did was enquire why the case was proceeding in the first place, seeing as the challenge had come after the 28 day period in which such challenges can be brought (it was 80-odd days before they informed me it was being challenged and they raised a case).

    RTB agent said "that only applies to valid notices, there's no time limit for invalid ones". I asked "wait, so you have 28 days to challenge the validity of a valid notice, but you can challenge the validity of an invalid notice whenever the hell you want?"......Yes, was the answer. I just had to accept it. I still wish I'd taken it further, tbh.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I was reading this newspaper article, thinking it was just another scumbag tenant when this line jumped out:

    ”The RTB ruling noted it is an offence to knowingly mislead an RTB Tribunal and a conviction could lead to a €4,000 fine or a six-month prison sentence.”

    Not sure if this was always the case, or whether it was introduced in the most recent amendments, but it seems just, to punish those who make false claims when entering disputes.

    https://archive.ph/cTcd9



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭meijin


    That's a standard note added in every Tribunal report, if you check previous RTB rulings, nothing unusual there, and seems to apply to providing false evidence to the Tribunal, not having fake claims for a dispute.

    Up to the Tribunal to decide if the case has merits or not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    Easiest solution to the whole mess would be that the notice gets sent to both the RTB and the tenant. The RTB then look at it and press a button to declare whether it is valid or not within a day or two of receiving it.

    Its not really that hard for them to implement such a system. Lots of companies have systems where you submit a document or form or whatever and they approve it or tell you to submit again after it is checked within minutes of it arriving. But instead we have a holy mess that caused so much trouble and takes months or even years to sort out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    They don't want to, it keeps people off the streets and from been the government's problem. The RTB isn't impartial its' there for tenants.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 717 ✭✭✭Yeah Right


    I've phoned them before to seek advice from a landlord's POV and they wouldn't entertain me at all as they "have to be impartial and, more importantly, have to be SEEN TO BE impartial". Funnily enough, when I phoned back later pretending to be a tenant with the same issue, they've no problem dishing out advice and being partisan all of a sudden was no issue.

    Selling that apartment was the best thing I did in the last 5 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭meijin


    So you want to replace the Adjudication and Tribunal with a 1-day check and one click by RTB?

    Obviously what's on the paper presented by the LL, even if it looks 100% valid on its own, doesn't mean that the notice is valid in the context of the lease, circumstances of the tenancy, etc.

    Both sides need to be heard, if not in RTB, then in Court.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭ballyharpat


    What's on the lease would mainly have nothing to do with a termination, there is a standard protocol for NOT, it may be complicated, so complicated that most lay people have difficulty with it, but , if they are the ones that issue it-The RTB-then they should know if it's valid or not. There absolutely should be no need for a 'court' or 'tribunal'. Therein lies the problem. You really think its a benefit, that even issuing a NOT, should go through the court? not to mind the over holding that goes along with most of this nonsense that is driving even more landlords from the business. Here is a landlord selling, or trying to, there is another just after commenting how he was treated by the RTB, other potential landlords may be reading, current landlords are looking on and getting fearful, and you think it should be made even worse?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭spaceHopper



    In 2016 I called them about two of my Dad's tenants and how to handle an issue with them. They were very helpful but that has all changed now. I'd hate to work for them it must be hell. In the end one tenant move out and the other we had to kick out. My dad was in hospital at the time and passed away do I guess the problem tenant's mother got him to do the right thing and move.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    Did you read the OP, they clearly state that there copied "all info" to RTB.





  • Being a landlord in Ireland is pointless. Leave it to the vultures, the pension funds, let those businesses cater to the market. It’s a mug’s game. I just count myself fortunate to have had my particular tenants, my solicitor is currently acting to conduct the sale. There’s much better ways to invest if that’s what you want to do.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭meijin


    haha, "nothing to do with a termination"?

    ok, imagine this, LL and tenant sign a lease extension for 1 year fixed-term

    but... the landlord decides to issue a notice of termination the very next day

    how do you suppose you can decide if the notice is valid on its own?

    (just one example; try to read the published RTB Tribunal orders and see for yourself why those cases are not simple)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,353 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    What is on the lease may have a lot to do with a Notice of Termination.

    the date the lease started has an effect on the length of notice required.

    The tenancy my be ending during the period of a fixed term which goes to validity.

    Terminations for breach of a condition also require sight of the lease as well as other documentation.

    It is not just a question of looking at a notice and saying "good to go".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,485 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Yes, no need to be snarky. Not everyone knows about the statutory declaration or complies with it. "All info" from their perspective could just be the NOT. Zero harm in being specific, loads of potential harm in assuming and getting it wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    It would 100% eliminate any potential issues down the line with trivial mistakes like typos etc.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭RurtBeynolds


    If you handed it to them personally can't they just say they didn't receive any notice? Can you prove you gave it to them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭ballyharpat


    are you for real? right, we are talking about this particular case, and in 99.9% of cases, there is no lease extension-unless the landlord was born yesterday- these are basics, we can not only assume, but presume, that the basics are fulfilled , they even contacted a solicitor- there is no solicitor in the country that would issue NOT under the circumstances you describe- so stop the bleeding trolling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭ballyharpat


    seriously, read the posts, they have contacted a solicitor, -'no need to be snarky' there have been a few posters that have complicated this way more than it is, -They are selling the house, they have solicitors involved-use a small bit of common sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭ballyharpat


    Did you read the posts??? Honestly, they have a solicitor involved- even if they hadn't, they are on here-unless they have less that two brain cells they realize they have to give the correct amount of time depending on when they started the tenency- for arguments sake- let's assume the landlord is not living under a stone- for the love of God.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,485 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Which post saying they have sent a statutory declaration haven't I read? Surely it's common sense to not assume anything about the OP's situation and get clarity, otherwise you make an arse out of yourself.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭ballyharpat


    So go back and

    The posts are still there, go back and read them, and while you are doing that, you will have a chance to read my post again that you commented on. After you've done that, please, do me a favor, don't reply to any of my posts.

    It's Monday, I really cannot explain things over and over to someone that has difficulty understanding basic protocol, and just wants to cause as much inconvenience as possible to others- that seems to include landlords and other posters on here. Have a lovely day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,485 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Excellent contribution to the thread, well done.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 192 ✭✭advisemerite


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    How come not true? Do you stay in a hotel room beyond the date you paid for? Do you stay in an Airbnb beyond the date agreed! You don't!

    Remember the shills only get paid when you react to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,125 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    There are different laws governing residential tenancies compared to guest accommodation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 192 ✭✭advisemerite


    Of course not but in those scenarios you are not a tenant, different rules, laws and regulations.



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