Referendum on Gender Equality (THREADBANS IN OP)

Just listened to McDowell there, the manner in which this debacle has been handled is actually extremely concerning, rushed through the houses, vital minutes of meetings with the AG were deliberately withheld from the public....the political class, all of them bar a few independents, have supported the Government in this, the NGOs, the media who published laughable polls, have attempted something very nefarious here....this was no ordinary Referendum.

I think if more clearly and precisely defined most Irish people would have given a yes vote. The issue is that the undefined wording that was provided is obvious waffle with potentially massive downsides.

They don’t represent me anyway and I raised my children as a single, full time working mother.

The Constitution does not say the woman's place is in the home. Far from it - what it says is that a woman should not be forced to work when needed at home. That wording could be updated to be more inclusive - but it wasn't. And as a result, the government got a trouncing.

I suspect that there were two things behind the referendums:

1. The government wants to remove State obligations - and many here will have seen a clip of Varadkar saying that in his opinion it is the individual who should be responsible for family care and not the state. Removing that article would allow the state to shift the balance from the State (which here means the Irish people as a community) to the individual and thus allow the government to step back from supporting those most in need.

2. Specifically mentioning Women in the constitution is anathema to those pushing the trans agenda. I'd imagine that there is jurisprudence involving the word Woman which could be undermined by removing the word from the constitution, and thus allowing the legislature to define the word as it sees fit.

This should be just as big an embarrassment for the opposition parties, who virtually all campaigned for a Yes. If you are interested in a blame game, then it shouldn't be one-sided.

It was definitely planned to be another photo opportunity for Ireland to be highlighted as the poster child for progressive ideology.

The difference between this and say the marriage equality referendum is that letting people of the same sex marry each other didn't negatively impact anyone, it was an easy win because it sold itself as a concept and only actual bigots had a problem with it.

The idea that we were finally voting on equality between men and women (see the title of this thread for confirmation of that misunderstanding) wasn't fooling anyone.

Hopefully this is received as an indication that while Ireland is a progressive country, government can't just shovel any auld crap at the Irish people and demand that they fall in line.

Any attempt to re run these referendums would be foolish in the extreme and a true indication of the hubris of our ruling class.

The referendum has fa-right connotations in the sense that the Twitter trolls will champion the result as some kind of shift in attitude, although the figures around the vote will tell us that most Irish people weren't bothered to have an opinion, so those trolls would be off the mark. Among those who did have an interest, there seems to have been a big concern about vague wording, so the trolls would be wrong there, too. I have no strong opinion on the questions which were asked, but I don't think it's a bad thing to want to have the questions really boxed off before putting it to the people and leave no doubt about the implications. Leaving things to sort out afterward is just asking for trouble because what if they can't be sorted out? Then, you're just stuck with a mess.

Do you mean that "people confused" in the sense that they have got things wrong, or does "confused" actually mean that they can tell that the proposed wording was unclear and confused?

If the latter, that's a bloody good reason for voting no, isn't it?

Your reason for voting "no" based on what other countries would think of us is strange (and IMO wrong, having listened to the BBC coverage this morning).

Yes the government made a pig's ear of the wording. That is a very good reason for voting no, and all the more so as nobody has been able to point out a single negative consequence in people's real lives of the current wording.

'It also blows out of the water this back-slapping of the last few years that we are so forward-thinking and progressive and that the old conservative Ireland is gone. it hasn't gone away. This is still a deeply conservative country.'

Of course you'll be aware there are sizeable numbers who are fine with that, and as entitled to that belief as you in yours

No fear they'd put that before the people in a referendum!! We don't need the Constitution to define the word woman, much like we don't need the Constitution to define the word home, a woman is an adult female human being full stop!

It's good that odious creatures of the sort that gave us such rhetorical horrors as "person with a cervix" were denied access to our constitution.

Well done Ireland!

Go back and read the whole post if you're still conscious.

Spot on.I think we should only be allowed to have policies in this country that gets Paddy a pat on the head from his betters around the world.

Jesus if some of the tallies are to be believed there must be panic in all political parties at this point...will we see some leadership heaves?

Varadkar and McEntee need to be hidden from the public for the foreseeable future, joined by Martin, there's a blood bath coming!!

Not sure about that. Is it to suggest that they used the wrong words, should have used alternatives words, like synonyms, but overall effectively meant the same thing.

It is what the words meant that mattered - and what it all meant or could potentially have meant is why the amendments were rejected.