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Ireland - now considered one of most vulnerable countries in the EU (defense wise)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Alliances have historically sometimes been the cause of inflating conflicts. Which is why people are cautious about them.

    "Well structured" is probably how to avoid that.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,086 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    LoL sure.

    Then everyone goes "I don't remember voting for those ruskie lads but sure I heard it on RTE that they were in charge so I guess it's legit. Time to continue on with life"

    You have an utterly absurd understanding of how countries work. A couple hundred foreigners can't turn a modern democracy into a puppet dictatorship cause they take two buildings.

    Ireland should invest more in its defence. Hopefully those pushing that argument n the corridors of power aren't quite so prone to utterly ridiculous flights of fancy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20 Griffin47


    Watching the flypast over O'Connell Street for the centenary in 2016, I had to compare it with the similar event in 1966 for the half-centenary. The latter featured one or more jet fighters. Don't hold me to it, but I think they were Hawker Hunters. Anyway, they were British-built. No fighters in 2016, nor anything capable of intercepting a Russian bomber with its transponder turned off. Nothing wrong with being under the umbrella of the RAF, both in terms of primary radar and interception capability. This arrangement works to the advantage of both countries. And Britain is also, to some extent, under the umbrella of the US.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Ukraine isn't going to leave Putin fighting on two fronts.

    Also there's a vast amount of long distance weapon systems in play.

    Putin doesn't need Ukraine. It's a land grab of contiguous land space. Any thing after that is a bonus. It's also not a remote island with almost no resources.

    It's a ridiculous comparison.

    And he's been unable to capture an objective on his own border. If anything it shows how even more impossible anything further way (like Ireland) would be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,769 ✭✭✭Economics101


    Yes, alliances of the type preceeding WW1 were a disasterous and predictable source of instability and eventually war. NATO is a very different beast.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20 Griffin47


    There's some professional quality colour footage on Youtube, about 11 minutes without any sound. The flypast is about 5 minutes in, but blink and you'd miss it. There's a clock showing midday, some armoured personnel carriers led by a Land Rover, then the flypast. Shows how good my memory is. The aircraft are fairly obviously De Havilland Vampire night fighters, four of them in close formation. Absolutely beautiful aeroplanes, and nothing at all like the Hawker Hunter. This is from the Wikipedia page for the De Havilland Vampire, under the Ireland section. The Fouga Magister was a jet, but classed as a trainer, so maybe the change signalled the first signs of downgrading Ireland's air capability?


    The Vampire entered service with the Irish Air Corps in 1955, and was the first ever jet powered fighter aircraft in Ireland. A total of six Vampire T.55s were acquired and served under No.1 Fighter Squadron, stationed at Casement Air Base. The Vampires replaced the Supermarine Spitfire and Seafire as Ireland's main combat aircraft. The Vampire brought the jet age to Ireland and introduced heavier armaments through the Vampire's cannons, as well as new technology such as ejection seats. The Vampires served until 1975 and were replaced with six Fouga CM.170 Magisters.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Can you post a link I couldn't find it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    The EU has been polite about our negligence so far. That will change. No country will get a free ride in the future.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    No, but it can make a reasonable effort in per capita terms as Sweden and Switzerland have done. One emerging area is cyber. We’re clearly under threat from that already so why aren’t we taking it more seriously?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,769 ✭✭✭Economics101


    Well, Switzerland is the big exception, but Sweden which historically had fairly advanced military capabilities has now seen the need to join NATO. Even Sweden alone cannot defend itself against the likes of Putin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭highpitcheric


    Yeah its called the EU.

    Its certainly not nato, which is prone to the emotions of isolationist america. And their loony leaders.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20 Griffin47




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,769 ✭✭✭Economics101


    Total nonsense: the EU is not a military alliance. You seem to be very anti-American - the real reason behind being anti-NATO. Who are their loony leaders (plural)? I know one - and TFG is truly exceptional - who bears virtually sole responsibility for American isolationism.

    If the US were to abandon NATO, then the remaining NATO members will have to hugely up their game. The UK will be an essential part of this, and they are not EU



  • Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭highpitcheric


    Total nonsense. The EU will defend its members.

    Having a pro-security outlook does not work with an approach of depending on an increasingly isolationist and unpredictable country an ocean away.

    Europe is moving to strategic autonomy. Macron sets an ultimatum to Russia, and Czechia/EU organize artillery for Ukraine.

    Meanwhile US congress denies Ukraine aid due to internal conflict, and Trump gives Putin his blessing, then meets with Orban.

    Europe can only rely on Europe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20 Griffin47


    Not sure how to post a link with this phone, but you should find it with the search term: Dublin City Marks Easter Rising, Ireland 1966. There's also a short Pathe clip, less than two minutes, showing the flypast from a different angle.

    Post edited by Griffin47 on


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,209 ✭✭✭saabsaab




  • Registered Users Posts: 8,209 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    We need a proper radar system. We have about 3,500 miles of coastline for all kinds of reasons we need a proper naval service.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,209 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    What effect would you think it would have if the Public heard it from the media that a new crowd was in charge. Some kind of puppet government installed. It is a bit far fetched but it is a possibility and does occur in other countries from time to time. I am not saying it is likely but I was asked to paint a scenario where it could happen and I did..



  • Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭highpitcheric


    Natos Erdogan is backing Hamas.

    https://www.thehindu.com/news/international/erdogan-says-turkey-firmly-backs-hamas-leaders/article67932143.ece

    Turkish President Recep Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on Saturday Ankara "firmly backs" Palestinian militant group Hamas.

    "No-one can make us qualify Hamas as a terrorist organisation," he said in a speech in Istanbul. "Turkey is a country that speaks openly with Hamas leaders and firmly backs them."

    Who wants to be in an alliance with that? Raise your hands.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 265 ✭✭engineerws


    The world is becoming more and more polarized again and a world war 3 would be the end of the world.

    Ally with the UK, the people that genocided every inhabitant in Tasmanian, still have the same dynasty as head of state and still occupy Northern Ireland? Ally with the USA that is currently providing Israel with bombs to kill children?

    No for me anyway. Lots of nice people in USA,/ UK but I'd rather die fighting than help those fuckers butcher people around the world💪



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The flip side of that is the war in Ukraine and the shipping attacks has already unlocked extra defence spending across Europe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,802 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    No but it can do what the Finns used to do. The aim is not to defeat an army but to make it clear that whoever tries will have a hard time and get a bloody nose in the process. The "make it not worth it" approach to an aggressor.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The Finns lost though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    We use our resistance to joining NATO as an excuse to avoid defending ourselves at all. Both Sweden and Switzerland practiced armed neutrality for many decades, unlike ourselves. They didn’t depend utterly on the kindness of strangers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭sandbelter



    Finland avoided being re-incorporated as part of the USSR, during the whole cold war they were the only non Communist neighbour of the USSR.

    Most importantly both the Moscow peace treaty of 1940 and the Armistice of 1944, the Finns got to choose their own government....the Finns yielded but were not defeated. The Finnish constitution that was in place before WW2 was still the constitution in place after WW2.

    That's what Finnish resistance achieved, the ability to choose between total defeat and yielding on terms that you will accept.

    If you want to see a loss compare that with Estonia's experience.

    Also it's only in Ireland that I find complete faith that NATO is going to be around next year!

    BTW if Ireland is so irrelevant why did the Russians hack the HSE for every Irish persons medical history....why is there a live thread in another group about when are we seeing adverts in Korean.....you can google translate if you want to work out what they are advertising for but ....gee I wonder who posted that...it appears it's not from the countries of your usually commercial scammers, and the rest of the world doesn't care about Ireland...maybe Russia's new best friend?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,558 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Would you like to be fully consistent in that stance and demand that all their companies leave our state? Yes, they have a terrible history of oppressing non-Europeans but we were their willing helpers in that regard. Look across the British Empire or the Americas and you will find stories of many people of Irish origin committing atrocities. We live in an imperfect world; let’s choose the least awful options.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Finns lost 9% of their land...

    And there was this...

    They lost the war and had to align themselves with Russia.

    It's still irrelevant to Ireland since we don't share a border, or a land mass with Russia.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,413 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Don't think Irelands ever been willing to spend much money on defence.

    But we don't spend enough on policing our airspace and territorial waters either.



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