Fired from bar-job for not charging staff full price of pints

Summary firing is almost always an unfair dismissal, so there may be a case to be taken to the WRC.

Sounds like a life lesson learned tbf

I'd think about looking at this another way. Don't teach your son that when he does something dumb like ignoring the rules, that there is some way to blame others for his mistake.

There's enough people in the world who believe no matter what they do wrong, it's always someone else's fault.

Unfortunately for your son I'd say he was already on the manager's radar having had previous warnings and this was just the excuse needed to get rid of him.

Undercharging has always been seen as a reason for instant dismissal in the licensed trade.

I'd also think he can forget about getting another job in a bar as everyone knows everyone else and any hint of dishonesty will scupper him.

If your son is past his probation then if took a case he would 100% win it. You can't fire people on the spot, no matter what they do. It's a breach of fair procedure and the WRC will always hammer companies who breach this fair procedure.

It's worth checking what the normal custom in that place was.

IMHO, if your son was following usual and acceped practice then he has a case, and should not be singled out - otherwise doubtful

Also, what written or oral instruction was given prior regarding conduct, theft, but also staff fringe benefits or accomodations.

Was it clear prior that this was prohibited?

Bear in mind each side pays own costs, win or lose, in WRC.

I think it's worth figuring out what his rights are irrespective, and if he has a case - and then go back to the bar with that first.

All cases can be found on the WRC website.

This isn't true at all. There is no law against giving a bad reference. The risk associated with giving a bad reference is the potential of being sued for defamation. However, if you can prove the statement that you gave is true, you can defend yourself against a defamation suit. The important thing to realise is that the burden of proof is on the person who gave the statement - they must prove that the statement is true, the plantiff does not have to prove the statement is false.

In practice, companies don't give bad references because they are risk-averse. They don't want to have to defend themselves against a defamation case, even if they can

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment-and-redundancy/dismissal/fair-grounds-for-dismissal/#6a739c

From someone in the trade for a number of years, it sounds quite harsh. Perhaps though there were quite a number of "misdemeanours" though?

The warning for not measuring a spirit in a cocktail seems petty. Barmen need to adapt when it's busy vs quiet and many can't. Personally i'd see this as a fairly positive trait, only obviously if he has a good eye. Of course cocktails should be fairly exact.

He shouldn't be undercharging staff. I'm surprised by the way you speak of the establishment though that they allow staff to drink there.

My advice would be for him to move on. The hospitality trade are crying out for staff and the fact that he has experience is a big thing. Wouldn't worry about a lack of reference.

I think he's obviously made mistakes but they don't seem like a very nice place to work for either.

Agree, it should be. Talk to your TD if you feel strongly about it.

However right not, it's not required.

So many people here proclaiming one mistake in the industry and you are finished forever. Yes, Ireland is small, yes word can travel but if it were the case that anyone who was fired from the hospitality industry would not work again, the industry would totally collapse.

How do all the people who were fired from a job in Ireland get another job? Reading these comments you would swear the country was filled with people confined to their rooms, never entering society again because of one mistake!

There are other bars in towns up and down the road, you could ask a buddy to pretend he was your boss to get over the reference thing. You can leave it off your CV altogether and claim you went travelling for a few weeks. Ask friends and family for contacts and see who needs some help, even if it's seasonal. I wouldn't recommend going down the road of WRC for this. See it as a life lesson for your son to take on the chin. But take no notice of all these doom sayers in the thread who insist that every single person in the bar and hotel trade all know each other. Its not true. Ireland may be small but we still number a few million so it's not that small.

It’s not absolutely false. Gross misconduct still has to be proven, not assumed. This requires an investigation, however cursory.

Admittedly, the case in question is open-and-shut and no big investigation is required but an employee is entitled to due process.

You absolutely can be sacked on the spot. I did it to a staff member caught stealing from another staff members bag. She was dismissed on the spot and paid up to that hour and not a cent more. I double checked afterwards with the company's solicitor and was told it was one of the reasons you can do an instant dismissal (assuming the theft was proved)

Yes. And proof of the theft required a process

Check the till and check the camera if available. What more investigation do you need.

I've never sacked someone for giving out cheap drinks to staff because it was always some kid who didn't understand that only me (the manager) could do that.

I have sacked for theft and other gross misconduct though and it was always the same. They always admitted once challenged and just walked.

So no due process then? You are wrong .100% wrong.