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Will Aontu have canidates to vote for in next election

24

Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Which do you think happens more often in Ireland eh?

    Got proof of women being "coerced" into abortions? Pretty wild claim and swing



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Neither would be vast majority of the population going by elections, backed by polls, but the thread's less a conversation and more an unpaid Party Political Broadcast for yet another irrelevant (socially) right wing party.



  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭KevMayo88


    I am certain that the next GE will return 3-4 new TD's of a right wing party, at the expense of FFG.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,485 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    All these fringe parties never go anywhere.

    Irish people are set in their ways and will vote for the big name parties.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Based on what polling? None of the socially right leaning parties have made any significant strides, Aontú about as good as it has got and the calibre of non-Toibín candidates pretty horrendous if not outright toxic for the party. Maybe a clatter of right winger independents, sure that's always a crapshoot, but there's no indication Aontú are some sleeping dragon. More a one man show plus local ideological detritus.



  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭KevMayo88


    These referendums have shown us polling is an utter joke. I base my claim that there will be 3-4 new right wing TD's on this. I see on social media at least 2 (I will not name) who are having a real groundswell of support in terms of followers and online traction, as well as physical crowds when they speak. These same people have essentially been campaigning for about 18 months already in their local areas and have tapped into deep frustration with the government on issues like immigration and housing. I certainly can see some of these people mounting a very strong campaign and with a very real prospect of getting elected.



  • Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Oh dear. Sounds like someone doesn't talk to women or know their history. Coercion and pressure does not mean they ended up having one. Men who were about to become fathers and didn't want to be have done this since time immemorial. When abortion wasn't an easy option, the parents of young pregnant women sent them to mother and baby homes.


    And the reason this coercion and pressure to have an abortion exists as opposed to prostitution is because the former is now completely legal while the other is completely unnecessary because of the welfare state, and indeed the bit in the constitution we just voted on!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Peadar Toibin just announced running in Connacht/Ulster/Midlands in Euros.

    He is going to romp home.

    He will pick up votes from all parties I believe.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    So just a number you made up. You cant appropriate the result of a referendum whose wording was a foundational problem for many, as somehow indicative of overall support for a party. That's not how it works; not least because with a national election nobody's gonna remember how a party sat during a ref that curried neither interest or support.

    I didn't ask about Mother and Baby Homes, I asked about abortions: how many coerced abortions, since the 8th was repealed, have their been? Your post seemed to imply some dark side effects of the availability of abortion. If not, then fair enough.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭KevMayo88


    Regaring my comment, I never suggested a correlation between the referendum result and a GE result. I made reference to how polling is not reliable anymore. I'm simply giving my opinion that I am confident that there will be at least some new TD elected who will come from a right-wing background. It's not scientific, it's an opinion. It's an easy prediction to make given the huge unrest in certain communties these days, and groundswell of support certain right-wing personalities are having.



  • Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭purifol0


    "how many coerced abortions, since the 8th was repealed"

    Stop moving the goal posts, these issues occur pre and post referenda and legality. Coercion and pressure to have an abortion happens every time a teenage girl gets knocked up today. I'm sorry this completely true statement has destroyed your argument.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    What recent Irish polls have shown to be unreliable? Are you talking referendum or general, cos generally there's no indication Aontú are on the up and up, and our PR system tends to better map to TD seat numbers than other systems. No one's discounting your opinion but it doesn't necessarily match observable reality.

    Destroyed what argument? I asked a simple question and your reply went both feet in with antagonism and snark. "Every time" though is a big claim though, if that were true then clearly teenage pregnancies would be nonexistent, no? I'd not be so bold as to talk in absolutes about what and how families discuss abortions after pregnancy.

    And yeah. I've talked to women, including those who have had abortions. I don't pretend or try to speak flippantly about something emotionally complex that changes from person to person.



  • Registered Users Posts: 394 ✭✭KevMayo88


    Let's have a chat after the next general election on here when 3-4 new right wing TD's are elected. What is coming is coming.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    No numbers, just the prickling of your thumbs. Fair enough. As you said, we'll see but polls show no sign of Aontú picking up speed. Quite the opposite.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    What polls are these ,the same one s that predicted a strong yes vote to both referendums.All them polls are only a bit of a cod ,it is the same few people that are surveyed over and over again and who knows if even they are giving true information ..I dld polling clerk in a rural area and there was no hint that there was such a strong No vote ,imo this was more of a protest vote then any wording problem with the referendum!!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Aha, lets define right wing first. According to boardsies the current govt are already right wing (despite our ever growing welfare state), and so is anyone who was going to vote NO!

    Terms like conservative and progressive have been forgotten it seems.



  • Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭purifol0


    Its more insidious that even that. Parties pay for multiple polls and publishes the one it likes! The rest are for "internal use only".

    I received a call by Red C on (my mums housephone) and was asked to take part, I said I would - but wanted to know who had paid for the poll. The chap on the end of the line nervously said he couldn't give out that info! Call ended there.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    What polls are these

    National election polls. The only ones that matter and trying to divine meaning in this referendum as indicative of anything other than a resounding No, is foolish and betrays projection. The referendum was a nonsense of bad communication, crap timing (why wasn't it with the locals/EU?) and dreadful wording of the proposed amendments themselves - something my own anecdotal experience of locals (in one case a mother of a Downs Syndrome child) showed was a massive concern. Of course it was rejected, it was a balls up from top to bottom.

    The only bellwether we have are polls, and the summer local elections. Beyond that the rest is conjecture of the more pointless kind; certainly by way of some thinking Aontú are now spokespeople of the population; the support is neither omni-direcrional or transitive



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,485 ✭✭✭Cody montana


    My mother voted for him as he was her brother.

    We all refused.

    Aontu are irrelevant and will always be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,932 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    The statement above is false.

    I would not be a 100% fan of them, as I would be more leaning towards centre-right, but to describe them as "mental" or "lunatics" is completely wrong.


    "Aontú is the new 32 county all-Ireland Republican party, dedicated to protecting life, Irish reunification and economic justice for all. In just three months we have held public meetings in every county in Ireland. 5,000 people have attended our public meetings, hundreds of people are joining our party every week, new Cumann are forming practically every night. At the latest count, there are 60 new Aontú Cumann functioning throughout Ireland."



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,923 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Aontu aren't really a party. They are a vehicle for Peadar Toibin so he stands out from being just an independent. He'll attract votes easily, he's a good politician and a good speaker (even if his policies are no craic sinn fein).

    Him running for Europe makes sense, because if he's elected he'll run for his fail seat again but can hand his mep seat off to a party member.

    As for right wing tds, we already have some, and might get more, but they'll likely be independents. And I can see them taking votes from sinn fein before they take votes from FF or FG...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Well they won't be 'right wing' if they represent a substantial portion of Irish citizens views. In that case, they'll be centrist.

    Yes I expect we will see a good crop of Independents elected.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I just gotta say that "no craic Sinn Fein" is a most hilarious and brilliant description 🤣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 601 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    The only silver lining to come out of the current shambolic government are good alternatives to vote for.

    The Farmers Alliance, Independent Ireland and Aontú are a good trio for number 1,2 and 3 vote



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭Ashbourne hoop


    I think I know one in particular who you are talking about. They appear to have good traction on-line but when you examine it it's a mix of bots, random numbers + Irish flag, foreigners and people most likely outside their constituency. Come election time I'll be surprised if they make any leeway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    People need to realise a few things.

    To most people divorce, abortion, contraception, same sex marriage are no longer issues.

    Those boats have sailed, no matter how much people like Toibin and others may want to revisit it.

    Revisiting controversial topics is not good idea.

    Immigration very much is a current and future issue that will dictate what people look at in candidates in coming elections.

    Fiddling with constitution to placate woke modern ideologues and NGO types is also a topic a lot of people don't care for as shown by referendum.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Immigration very much is a current and future issue that will dictate what people look at in candidates in coming elections.

    Uhm, and not the gigantic, continuing crisis that is housing? Or the ongoing HSE dumpster fires? Childcare? Cost of Living? The recent shrinking tech industry turfing thousands out of work? Not trying to ignore the fact migration has become a hot topic or anything, but it's reductive to say it's the issue around which the future GE is gonna be fought. Maybe on the internet.

    And even if it were, in of itself IMO that's not enough to suddenly sway voters towards other parties who offer Topic X above all else; on the issue of migration you're more likely to see people to stick with whatever potential government parties (the Big 3 and Labour/Greens, maybe SC) who promise tighter controls - and you can be damn sure there'll be some meat thrown that way. I'd be shocked if FG, FF and SF didn't pivot their manifesto towards "stronger" responses to migration without tipping outright into fully Right Wing antagonism ala the UK Tories of late.

    As to the topic? I'd say if Toibín ever left them or retired, you'd quickly see the party shrivel and die. That's what happens so many of these kind of parties, pick one: Aontú here, or something like UKIP in the UK or Alba in Scotland; dominated or started by one predominant personality but one whose popularity almost entirely depends on that person.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    That's an interesting take on democracy. I guess we'll never have a majority government again, nor has there ever been one before.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    It's not a transitive relationship: Aontú running on a platform that overlapped with the final national vote doesn't not translate into secret support for the party, no matter how much one might admire the party, its views or whatever angle one comes at. The AG of his country derided the referendum's wording and this has been a recurring topic on why it failed; and going by my own flimsy anecdotal perspective, people who should have supported the Care Referendum rejected it because it offered them no actual substance to their problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Are you forgetting that immigration very much feeds into the housing/accommodation, healthcare and education crisis.

    I hope you are not one of those that appears to think immigration (even legal and illegal - and we all know what illegal means apart form those deluded yes voters) has absolutely no effect on housing and healthcare?

    After the mess that this government and all main parties have made leaving towns and villages around the country reeling, then lecturing them how they are right wingers or morons led by right wingers agitators, the parties are going to get a kicking.

    And yes cost of living, fuel, childcare, elderly care, waiting lists, GP access, lack of student accommodation (also somewhat down to immigration) will all factor.

    I agree that Aontu is basically Toibin.

    I am not allowed discuss …



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,637 ✭✭✭kowloonkev


    I feel the comment I replied to was saying that the referendum result is not necessarily the opinion of the majority of people in country.

    If someone were to say that after same sex marriage or other referendums they'd be ridiculed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,211 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Yep I know plenty of left wing people that voted no on both. Doesn't mean they agree with the perspectives of Aontu on anything.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Oh it does I'm well aware: if you have a child in créche you'll be fully aware just how critical immigration is to the continuing provision of vital services in this country, given how much of that industry is held up by foreign workers; so no, I don't buy into the scaremongering or worrying that's both the issue and an ostensibly negative one. But laying migration as foundational to the problem of why we don't have affordable housing and communities is starting at the conclusion and working backwards to fit a pre-existing bias - to which I've no interest in entertaining.

    Migration will be a topic of the BE, but there are about a half-dozen more pressing issues that only those with a resting sense of grievance or paranoia would think are informed by an excess of foreign people living in our country, or refugees sitting in hotels.

    Can't speak to Seth but I read it same as how I've said: Aontú being on the right side of the result is a Stopped Clock scenario and not reflective of where the population's headspace is at WRT party support. I'm sure the Aontú PR department would claim otherwise but digging into the result it's pretty self-evident what has happened here.

    As I said, when I heard people for whom they'd have been net beneficiaries of the Care Ref saying they'd reject it, the government ballsed up. But they're unpopular ATM so of course it's latched onto as Signs and Portents.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I originally replied to a comment which made the suggestion that Aontu were the only party that represented those who voted no.

    I corrected this because it was simply not true. I voted no but Aontu will probably never receive a vote from me.

    I never once suggested that the result was or was not the opinion of the country (for the record, the public have spoken so this is the opinion of the majority!).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,273 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    But thats the point.

    As long as Aontu keep clinging to religious ships that have long since sailed, they wont get any meaningful support.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,690 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Sinn Fein itself is becoming blander by the day, stealing FF and FG clothes in an effort to become palatable to Middle Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,431 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    Funny that he was the only party that called it right and was willing to nail his colours to the mast. Perhaps he's not so irrelevant as you think



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    You are linking the choice made by the electorate to the Aontu position. There is absolutely nothing there no matter how much you try and convince yourself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,431 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    It's as valid a reason as any other proposition on this thread.

    All I see since Saturday is the government parties squirming and those parties in opposition who supported it saying it's the governments fault.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,211 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    It's not really since there was plenty of opposition on the left as well as the right. So assuming that it will translate across to Aontu that are polling at around 1% as a party is a huge leap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,514 ✭✭✭Augme


    It's given me a good laugh seeing the same people so vocal against the idea of having another referendum on the family amendment throw their support towards a party who want to completely ignore the result of the abortion referendum.

    Post edited by Augme on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Certain things can become less relevant.

    For instance just look how politically poles apart people like Toibin and McDowell can end up on the same side on some matters.

    There is probably not one single party that would represent everything exactly that a person might want, unless you are a zealot and the party are zealots.

    There is more chance that parties represent everything a person doesn't want, which is actually now more prevalent that ever for lots of people in this country.


    If Aontu got into power, what are they going to do?

    Forcibly try and send people to mass?

    Try and get people to believe in God and church again?


    Rerun referendums on abortion, divorce, same sex marriages, etc ?

    As I said those boats have sailed.

    It is not like US where ruling president and majority party in senate can stack the supreme court so that in future social issues can be managed to their advantage.

    Aontu in power could demand that every day in the Dail starts with the rosary for all I care, it will matter feck all to us the people.

    I care more that they stop the codology around lots of issues that affect our society and economy.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,065 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    The fact is Aontu are the only political party with their finger on the pulse and able to read the room at the moment on the most important issues facing this country since the economy crash in 2008



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 10,539 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    A quick look at their website reminds me of the PDs when they were starting out - they walk a bit of the road with everyone and as they say even stopped clocks are right twice a day. On top of which referenda results are not indication whatsoever of party politics for an election - just look at the history.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,211 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Cool, so what credible politicians do they have that will win an election outside of Toibin? And let's also remember that they only came into existence because of Toibin's stance on abortion which doesn't remotely align with the Irish public. I don't see Aontu getting any notable bump in polling on the back of this... So they'll remain as relevant as Renua which also supposedly had its finger on the pulse.



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 40,908 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Do you seriously think most people are even aware of Aontu's position on the two referendums? The vast majority of the electorate do not care about Aontu and this sentiment is incredibly unlikely to change. Aontu had pretty much nothing to do with how anyone voted last Friday and it is deliberately misleadingto suggest otherwise!



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,711 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    not sure a party with 2% polling can claim to have the finger on the pulse on anything, or how the worst worded referendum in living memory is runway to real issues. But sure let's ignore the avalanche of polls in favour of a stopped clock.

    I mean, unless you're saying Aontú have solid gold Care policies that trump the care referendum's terrible, wishy washy wording, then by all means share them cos I've seen nothing substantive that marks them as offering anything except what all tiny parties do - moondust and fantastical promises, with a side of whatever ideological bias they may possess.

    Post edited by pixelburp on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,431 ✭✭✭SouthWesterly


    I never said aontu had but what he did have was agreement with public opinion on the referendum, something no one else on the political spectrum had



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,923 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    I'll give a quick example. Recently in the UK the Shamima Begum case was in the courts, and they confirmed that the UK government's decision to withdraw her citizenship was legal. I read am opinion that this was racist by the UK government and was wrong. I agreed with that statement, but it was written by Jacob Rees Mogg. Who i wouldn't be even remotely close to on pretty much any political issue.

    Just shows that it's possible to agree with someone on a specific issue without it meaning that you'd agree with them politically.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,932 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    Are Aontu against divorce? I doubt that.

    I know they are against abortion.



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