Munster Team Talk Thread - New season title pending....

Beirne easily makes the SA XV and the likes of Ryan & McCarthy are there or there about, in a combined team Beirne and Etzebeth would easily be the starting SR and then the likes of McCarthy, De Jager, Ryan, Snyman would all be around the same level. Jean Kleyn wasn't even good enough to make the Irish training squad yet was good enough to make the SA 23 6 times last season, sometimes you need to stop putting the opposition on a pedestal and just look at the facts. Kleyn along with the likes of Orie and Mostart (the current version ofcourse, he used to be a great player) wouldnt make an Irish squad and if they did they wouldnt get near the 23 bar a lot of injuries.

The only way he is useful in a year or two is if we have significant injuries and none of the younger guys improve.

From an IRFU perspective they aren't at a 'pretty high level' if AF does not believe they should be in his expanded panel.

If a player is good enough they've shown they can be getting Irish caps within weeks of arriving on the island.

It doesn't really impact the IRFU planning at all so I am not sure why they would care.

its the same paradox where scotland are actually not that great but because they bring their game up for england theyre suddenly seen as world beaters

I mean exactly but also both those things happen all the time in international rugby. Those aren't small risks .

Given how little Ireland planned to rotate during the WC, Kleyn would have made zero difference to the Irish team and was no loss that he got to play for the country of his birth and win a WC.

Even if he was fit right now he wouldn't be getting into the Irish six nations side either.

AF 'missed out' on absolutely nothing, it would have been Kleyn who would have missed out if a sizeable portion of Munster fans got their way and he was given a capture cap.

McCarthy on current form would definetly be there or there about, Ryan on current form wouldnt get in but going back to the last RWC the general consensus with neutral is Ryan and Etzebeth would likely have been the starting 4 & 5, largely because they complimented each other the best. Based on his reputation alone Ryan would be in the conversation at least with De Jager & Snyman.

You are right about the systems argument but ultimately someone like Kleyn should be making an Irish squad at the very least if he's good enough to make the SA 23. Especially if SA's SR depth is as strong as you are making out.

I think the issue here is you like many listen/believe too much media and it leads to you putting certain players on a pedestal regardless of what the fact's show. In the Ryan/Snyman case the former has up until this season been a key player for Ireland and considered virtually undroppable whereas the later has started only 1 match against a tier one nation since 2018. Sometimes just looking at the facts and stats is the way to go, just because you have a great highlight reel doesnt automatically make you world class, especially in a position as attritional as second row.

Seeing someone as emergency cover and planning to have them involved in future 23s are very different things.

I dont think the culture aspect is hard to quantify any more than how you could quantify the loss of any of these players. These players spend more time with their club mates than the international squad - if they hear AF and the IRFU is misleading players and hurting their careers why would anyone trust them?

Imagine how upset Healy would be currently if AF had given him a capture cap, like many here wanted, and he never saw the light of the Irish squad again, especially if he was mislead during the process. He'd be riding the bench or in the stands for Munster knowing he could be elsewhere.

If Munster did tell the IRFU that the French were sniffing around Frisch and AF threw him in as a late sub against Wales or Italy and never brought him into a squad again he understandably wouldnt be happy. Other IQ players would also think twice about joining Irish sides if they felt the system would try to capture cap them and block their future career pathways.

There are so many downsides for the IRFU, with emergency squad depth being the only short to medium term upside.

Kleyn was in no way 'a much better option' as AF was never planning to rotate his side significantly during the tournament and the 22 minutes McCarthy played outside of Romania, only due to another player getting injured, and during that time he performed well.

I think its more grey than you are painting it. You could tell Frisch the truth. You could be in our plans going forward, you have x and y to work on and we want to cap you. I don't think you should cap someone just because they could leave, but both kleyn and frisch are good enough that its a real possibility.

There is no evidence that AF hasn't had those exact conversations with the players.

Frisch was on the Emerging Ireland tour so I'd be shocked if he wasn't given things to work on to get him into the Irish picture and get caps.

True but the idea of capping someone is that you guarantee that all that development will happen in ireland. You can straight up tell him that and he can say no to the cap. It doesn't have to be a secret.

You can look at polls all you want but the evidence is here for all to see, started the 3rd test v Wales in 2022 is his only start against a tier 1 side since 2018. The fact that some fans call him "world class" or think he'd walk into a combined Ireland/SA side show how poorly informed some fans are, he's very talented and has potential to be world class on his day but come on, lets get back to the real world for just a second.

20 wins from 22 games a win record of over 90% would suggest our players are just fine...what's overrated is suggesting a player that's started 1 test match versus a tier 1 nation in 6 years would "walk into" a combined Ireland/SA side though.

Mail from MRSC tonight.

MRSC Membership & Season Ticket Renewal Dates

We are delighted to announce that 2024/25 Season Ticket and Munster Rugby Supporters Club Membership renewals will open on Tuesday 2nd April at 10AM

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Yea in the real world, any coach would pick the 6'10 guy who can offload over anyone and dominate in the lineout over a guy who hasn't had power in years. Jesus christ, its like hardcore delusion.

The only knock on Snyman is health. That's it. Otherwise he is a far superior player.

Ireland have tons of absolutely world class players. I don't think anyone but Irish fans thinks Ryan is one of them.

Please stop with facts! It's unsightly.