General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

You can be sick of hearing about it (or maybe sick of seeing them do well despite it?) but it doesn't make it less true.

You've picked an odd example in Bajetic.

Alison, Salah, Jota, Matip, Konate, Sobo, Nunez, Jones.

Honestly, it's be ridiculous. Quansah and Bradley being revelations hardly changes that and, imo, it's actually been some time since we had someone from the academy break through for any sustained period of time bar Trent.

Ah here, it's obvious to anyone who's played a bit of football that Nunez made the most of that challenge in the way he fell over as it's not natural to do that. Given the standard of refereeing players have to sell fouls at time to guarantee a penalty and that's exactly what he did. Don't get me wrong it was a definite pen but it Nunez just sold it a little more by jumping up into it and going for a swan dive as he expected the contact. You see it often enough when players expect contact and fall over just as a defender pulls out of tackle.

Kane has been excellent at doing this and while a bit grey area in the rules, it gets results and that's what Nunez guaranteed.

It was the point of contact, very visible from the camera angle following Nunez too. Even in the photo itself you can make it out and just shows that it wasn't some reckless challenge and Nunez just made the most of it by jumping into it to guarantee a foul. If such a tackle would occur on the halfway line on a 1v1 break, I guarantee the attacker would just adjust and keep running.

Contact was with the right knee first, photo is after that if you look at Ederson's right knee

"A 13 minute cameo at the end of a 6-0 win is the only time that Arsenal have played a player under the age of 22 this season in the PL"

That's insane, I wouldn't have thought that! Believe Liverpool have double figures for number of players under 22 with league minutes.

In fairness, Arsenal don't have many minutes in that stat because they invested in it over the last 3 years. Saka, Saliba & Martinelli are all 22. Though I agree with what you're saying in relation to Liverpool

My bad should have specified deep lying midfielder as when he is fit and firing on all cylinder has been a one man army enabling swift counters and freeing up the rest of attack to do their thing. As excellent as Rice has been, a fully fit Partey is more influential and would be a starter alongside him as seen at start of season when the two of them dominated without even playing together. Rice lacks the technique and ability receiving the ball and turning as well as dribbling and disguised passes like Partey but obviously excels in other areas and has been a vital player this season.

Yeah if the dial is switched to 22-27 year old bracket, it wouldn't be a bad guess to say that Arsenal are way out in front of a lot of teams in the league, let alone the top 3.

As mentioned by @djan, Arsenal have had a few injuries to players like Timber, Jesus etc but the back ups have been expensive experienced players who can slot in like White/Gabriel/Jorginho/Havertz. They haven't been kids. Those experienced players have nearly helped Arsenal more than the injured players would have, at times, IMO, as they have the stronger heads. I think there's something in Jesus & Zinchenko that doesn't scream steadiness to me and I wouldn't trust them in the run in personally. Having 'steadier' players playing instead of them can have a more stabilizing affect on the other players and Arsenal's defensive record has improved since Zinchenko has been out and Kiwior has stepped in.

I don't know if I agree with PJ but you aren't arguing his point.

He's saying the work Liverpool have done on their academy means they have great squad depth from those players. They are able to call on them and know they are of a high quality. Which from the evidence shown has been true. There seems to be a nice little group of players coming through there.

ETH could have thrown in a young CB sure... who would you have suggested? Utd don't have the same level of quality in their youth team at the moment. If we did then it would be used as we badly need it.

Kambwala and Forson got min over the last few weeks but in truth, I wouldn't see a future at the club for either. Our 2 biggest talents are probably still a bit too young to be thrown in (Amass and Lacey).

Fernandez was let go to Benfica as ETH seems to have been under the impression that Shaw and Malacia would be fit and available from Jan/Feb. Feck knows whats happening with Malacia.

The Liverpool youth players coming in are a bit more mature. It's a complement to their youth system and the work done.

Worth noting though that Liverpool's strategy has been to poach top youngsters from other academies as well as developing thier own. This didn't happen earlier in Klopp's tenure but it definitely shifted and you now have first team minutes for the likes of Bobby Clark (Newcastle academy), Trey Nyoni (Leicester City), Harvey Elliott, Fabio Carvalho (both Fulham), Calvin Ramsay (Aberdeen), Ben Doak (Celtic), Amara Nallo (West Ham - yet to play first team for Liverpool but has been on the bench), Stefan Bajčetic (Celta Vigo), Kaide Gordon (Derby County), James McConnell (Sunderland), Callum Scanlon (Birmingham)

This is worth noting because even though some of these came through the academy in the last year and look like organic products, many of these cost a significant sum for their age in transfer fee, at least 500k for each of these with some of them costing millions.

I see Rafa Benitez sacked again..frees him up to go back to Liverpool in the summer. Lot of Liverpool fans were saying how lucky Everton were to have him and he knows the city and does good work for charity.

Myself, I always have said that if a player plays for a clubs u18 team (and then u21 team) for a period of time, they can count towards their academy players. So for example I would count Ben Doak as a Liverpool academy player, but not Harvey Elliott even though both were signed at 16.

I do understand the argument of clubs moving for fees and can they really be counted, and I do somewhat agree with it, but at the same time some of those players are moving at 15 or 16 years of age. They're not exactly senior players are they? The fees are to build relationships, pay development fees and avoid tribunals. The players are playing a couple of years at u18 & u21 level and may never make the step up.

Bringing in youth players from external sources is nothing new either. It's not like Garnacho or Paul Pogba are born & bred Mancunians but they are Man Utd academy graduates. With the academy catchment area rules heavily favouring those clubs based in London, and clubs like Chelsea exploiting this by having localised pre-academies in different locations, the need to sign player at 15/16 to enter the academy then is the next best thing to bringing through direct localised talent.

I'm not criticising it, it's certainly working. I don't really think it matters too much. But I do think in terms of Liverpool it's relatively new. I know there were the likes of Raheem Sterling, Conor Masterson, Samed Yesil etc before that were brought in for substantial fees but those seemed more opportunistic than calculated at the time, the core was still to bring through the local lads as much as possible. But now it seems like a core strategy to scout the best talent from other academies and use the weight of the club to convince them to join.

Look Rafa was great for Liverpool but they're battling up around the top of the table now and going deep in cups so unfortunately Rafa doesn't appear to be able to manage that anymore. He's perfectly fine for a club like Everton though.

Edit: I see someone else had the exact same thought before me.

Bradley and Quansah are fantastic players particularly, and fully ready for regular first team action - though I wouldn't minimize the impact of the spate of injury's either. The drop in individual quality from the likes of Jota, Mo, Nunez down to Koumas, Danns, and Gordon is still monumental, as is the drop from Mac Allister, Endo, Szoboslai to McConnell, Clarke and Nyoni. There are some great prospects there, but relying on those sorts of lads too much definitely isn't sustainable.

The big benefit has just been how well drilled they are in the basics of the position - anyone who comes in knows the basics of their role, which makes life easier for the remaining senior lads as they can at least still play the plan rather than having to adapt too much to cover for lads getting out of position. So while you still definitely lose out on the levels of individual talent lost to injury, the impact is mitigated a bit by maintaining the basic framework.

That thing of having one way of playing, right across the whole club, is huge - that's what makes it work, rather than the kids necessarily all being prodigies or something. I would bet there are academy kids at other clubs who are better individually, but when they come into their own first teams they don't have that element of knowing exactly what cog they are in the machine, and so don't fit in as well.

The academy and first team train at the same complex now, it's definitely eased the path and transition into a first team player.

I think Liam is trying to catch you in a gotcha moment. He said "league" and "teenage". Lots of the Liverpool young lads who've played in the league are 20 and the younger guys have played in the cups and EL.

I could be wrong though.