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Letting Agent entered my property without consent

24

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 299 ✭✭Jmc25


    This is a key piece of information in this episode. There was an inspection arranged for a few days later, so the agent no reason to enter property before that date.

    Based purely on the information provided by the OP it seems highly unlikely to me that the RTB would agree that the agent had a right to enter the property without the tenants permission purely because the tenant ignored two phone calls and a knock on the door, especially as it seems that this all happened over the course of a few hours.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 642 ✭✭✭Escapees


    "I'm amazed at the level of hostility I have received from some posters for discussing what I feel are legitimate issues against my tenancy.


    It's as if some people consider all tenants to be "problems" or liars.


    These are sick, nasty agents. How anyone can defend them over me, I simply cannot understand."


    One can't help but notice some hypocrisy with the quotes from the OP's last post above... A bit like the pot calling the kettle black!!





  • Anyone who seeks to lie to someone to profit is engaged in an act of fraud -- as the letting agents have done.

    I will not apologise for calling that mendacious action out.

    And anyone who engages in such behaviour -- over and over again -- knows exactly what they are doing, lying to people to generate income -- and yes, that's nasty, and it makes the letting agents nasty people.

    Again, I won't apologise for calling nasty people out for what they are.

    Defend them if you wish, but I would like to assume you are in a minority.





  • No, they admitted when they entered they heard me there but entered nonetheless.

    Your characterisation is made up, it's wrong; it's an attempt to make the tenant look bad.





  • Just to follow-up on this.

    Twice I raised in emails now -- both on the 5th March (when she unlawfully entered my apartment) and on the 8th (my official move-out date) -- her transgression into my space and both times, completely ignored. I think that silence speaks volumes because anyone who were innocent of such an allegation would take the time to at least deny it.

    That aside, I reached out to the letting agent today requesting my deposit to be paid back to be in full, given the list of transgressions against me during my tenancy -- many of which I have outlined over the course of this thread (the unlawful clauses in the lease; the unlawful rent increases; the unlawful entry to my apartment; their refusal to pay for essential repairs and maintenance, asking me to shoulder all costs etc.).

    I said to her that failing to provide me with my deposit in full would mean I will contact RTB and refer all unlawful activity to them, and to seek my deposit back too.

    I said I would not communicate with her any further as she lost all moral and legal legitimacy to deal with my deposit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 642 ✭✭✭Escapees


    You do what you do... Sure you can update us (again) in due course when it's all said and done. Incidentally, note that reaching out to someone does not normally involve stating that you will not communicate with them any further! :)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Best of luck with it OP!





  • I agree, but I had to at least communicate my path going forward.





  • By the way, this post has 17 thanks and completely misrepresents my position.

    The letting agent in question several weeks ago gave me a glowing reference to those reviewing my latest application. I was the perfect tenant i.e. always paid rent on time -- and never caused an issue. The apartment remained perfectly upheld and I never caused an issue with neighbours over the course of three years.

    Second, I was not "ignoring communications" from the letting agent. I never have done so. Instead like most people in the world, sometimes we have very busy days. That day, I ignored all communications given my work and personal commitments. I had every intention of getting back to all those who contacted me that day. There is no legal obligation to get back to anyone - letting agent or friend or family member or random person - within a few hours. Let's be reasonable here, not religiously anti-tenant.

    Third, what happened at the time happened during the last week of the lease. She unlawfully entered the apartment on March 5, when we already had agreed to meet on March 8 for the final inspection. Given the timeframe, I was obviously trying to clean the apartment as best possible during the final week. It wasn't the last day, nor was it the last hour. Again, you misrepresent my characterisation.

    Fourth, I never broke the lease agreement. Bin charges, according to the contract I signed, are only paid at the very end of the lease, deducted from my deposit at a rate of €175 per annum. You just made that up, again.

    All rent was paid to date, on time.

    I left the apartment, as agreed, on March 8 - with full rent paid throughout my tenancy.

    So for all the people liking that comment, assuming I'm some awful tenant deserving of financial exploitation by the letting agents, perhaps you should think again before blindly agreeing to a randomer who knows nothing about my situation -- yet who claims to know everything.



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  • As a former landlord it think from all the info provided by OP agent was out of order on several counts and should be held to account. Most landlords would expect their agents to act correctly, goodness knows they cost enough to act on your behalf.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    OP. You are a nightmare in this thread. I cant imagine having you as a tenant, housemate or anything like that would be easy at all.

    Your life would be far easier if you just got on with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    Yeah OP, when people just let themselves into your house without your permission you should just accept it with no complaints. The polite thing to do would be to offer them a cup of tea. You probably should have tipped along with your on time rent every month as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    People making a mountain of a molehill here. The OP was moving out. They didnt answer the phone or the door. Agent went either to check were they ok or had they wrecked the place or to see what would need to be done with the place. OP is clearly a PITH, so its not a stretch to assume that the EA was concerned what they place would be like.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 707 ✭✭✭mykrodot


    you still need to pay your bin charges! Everyone does. Nobody gets away with free bins these days so please stop saying they will reduce the amount of deposit you get back, yes they will. It was 3 YEARS of YOUR rubbish. Its called paying your way in life. It seems to me from your first post that you were going in all guns blazing, you sound extremely angry , and from the off mentioned that bin deductions would lessen your deposit back. I think this post is all about not paying your bin charges.


    p.s. I'm not sure what age you are but calling the letting agents "sick and nasty" is hardly acting in a professional way with a business matter. Its not about getting "17 likes" to your post.

    It sounds like you are taking all of this very personally which is a mistake. It is a business matter to them and it should be to you. Name calling will lessen your case and your cause.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 707 ✭✭✭mykrodot


    p.s. having read OP's post back again all I can say is that the very first reactions this poster had were completely over the top. I actually thought the entire post was a wind up.

    Their very first words to the letting agent were "who the hell are you"? Unless it was a burglar in the middle of the night I wouldn't ask someone this way who they are. I'd say "oh Hi, who are you, were you ringing the bell, I didn't hear you?" Its antagonistic and rude at the very least.

    Saying that the agent had the "temerity to cross examine" me! Talk about being on a high horse! Its called asking a question, its not cross examination, its not having temerity (especially when OP hadn't answered previous texts or phone calls).

    If the OP thinks its "not valid" to ask for bin charges at the end of the lease then why did he/she not bring this up 3 YEARS AGO when signing the lease?? It must be great to get 3 years of free bins when everyone else around was paying theirs? You are meant to read contracts before you sign them, if you don't that's on you.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,808 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    I suppose people are different. "Who the hell are you?" seems a perfectly acceptable way to address a stranger I find in my living room.





  • Is there any possible way to identify the landlord of an apartment, or must it always go through the letting agent?

    I want to retrospectively receive the rent credit so I'm actually very unsure what the process is here. The letting agent refused to give me any details that my accountant asked for (it's how I found out about it), ignored my first email, then when I followed up a week later, they said they would give me the requested details in lieu of me leaving the apartment (as the property had "suddenly" been sold).

    Here is how they framed it:

    I ignored the above, and ignored pursuing the rent credit details any further given this latent threat of termination. Of course, they must have known I would ignore.

    It turns out the termination notice was never delivered to me anyway.

    I suspect the property is not registered with the RTB and this was their way out of it.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Paul on




  • I have no issue paying my way, if that's what's required. I was merely asking about whether it is considered valid in a tenancy contract i.e. not everything included in a contract is legally valid even if it's present in a contract.

    Most of the clauses in their contract to me are unlawful; they cannot be enforced by the law.

    Have you anything to say about their unlawful clauses, their unlawful increase in the rent twice; their unlawful demand I pay for all essential maintenance and fridges / washing machine replacement etc.; their refusal to engage with the rent credit; their unlawful entry into my apartment?

    Or is it all going to be about trashing the tenant?

    If she were to enter on the back of no history, it may be a different story.

    But there is a long history of inappropriate and unlawful conduct against me over many years -- which often cost me great personal expense. The unlawful entry was the very last in a very long line of actions against my tenancy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 642 ✭✭✭Escapees


    I'm not going to get dragged into several arguments regarding your last response to me, as you appear to have a very blinkered perspective on things. However, I think it is worth putting you straight on a particular point that you've mentioned more than once now. 


    In particular, you have said that:

    - "she gave me a positive reference, so I was never a problem tenant"

    - "The agent in question several weeks ago gave me a glowing reference"


    To cut to the chase, a letting agent will understandably give a positive or glowing reference even for the worst of tenants if it helps get rid of them and pass the problem on to someone else! That's very common in fact. 


    And even if this was not the case with you and you genuinely appeared to the agent to be a good tenant, you certainly seem to have deliberately held off raising your grievances regarding rent increases and bin charges with them till after they provided the reference.





  • I felt I had no choice but to stay silent.

    It was only from this time last year, once their conduct over the rent credit emerged, that I realised it was best to stay shut in case they try the termination notice stuff all over again. I take your point on the reference, but it wasn't a risk I was prepared to take.

    So when they unlawfully increased my rent last November, giving me 2-weeks notice to adjust my bank standing order, I discovered that it was wrong but that I should stay silent. It was very hard for me to swallow that pill, as I felt it a total affront to me. So I said I would stay quiet and that any wrongs would be righted at the end of my tenancy, as I knew by then I was definitely going to move out this month.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭meijin


    that's another problem... the landlord should have been identified on the lease

    for some properties, you can get details of the owner from the Land Registry - https://www.landdirect.ie/

    is the property listed on https://www.rtb.ie/check/index.html (it's not always accurate though)

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 707 ✭✭✭mykrodot


    you should have asked those questions 3 years ago about validity of what is included in the lease............namely the bin charges. You need to pay those!

    I'm not getting into "unlawful clauses, rent increases, maintenance " that's between you and the agent, there are 2 sides to every story and lots of details in cases like this. Its a pointless exercise doing this here on Boards. Go to the RTB, that's what its for.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on




  • Ah, I didn't realise the landlord had to be identified on the lease.

    I tried to use the land registry just now, but nothing comes up except for the address.

    When I used the RTB search, nothing comes up for the property either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 277 ✭✭CoffeeImpala


    Reading the Revenue help page it seems like you should be able to claim the rent credit without knowing the landlords details. The language used around any clawback is conditional.

    It would certainly be in Revenue's interest to build a database of properties that don't appear on the RTB website.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on




  • I'm going to contact RTB and ask them for the RTB number.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,760 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    there are other forms of evidence to back up my claim (such as text messages I sent my other half discussing what had just happened; her unwillingness to even deny it when I emailed her that day about it)

    Sorry, but you having a text conversation with a 3rd party, and you sending the letting agent an email (of which no reply with admission of unlawful entry was received) are not evidence. Not in the slightest.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on




  • It's circumstantial evidence.

    I have evidence of 2 missed calls; I have evidence of my arrival at the property (due to a Bolt arriving there); I have evidence I was cleaning up at the time; I have evidence that minutes before she entered, there was a missed call; there is evidence she entered the property block (due to CCTV); there is evidence on my phone that I contacted my other half to say just what happened; I have evidence I contacted her later that day, with no denial (and no denial from a second email days later). I have evidence of their long-standing commitment towards lying and acting counter toward the law, whereas I have always behaved upstanding and in accordance with law.

    It is beyond reasonable doubt that she entered, even if there is no video footage.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 642 ✭✭✭Escapees


    I'm starting to feel some sympathy for you now, must be getting soft!


    Personally, I'd recommend pursuing only the rent relief matter as that's potentially 1-2k worth of a tax refund that you (and perhaps a partner) might be entitled to. But more importantly, there's no excuse for landlords not to register their properties these days or for letting agents not to prompt them to do so.

    I'd let go chasing any of the other stuff though.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    The agent had no right to be in the house.

    Zero.

    There's no excuse "agent went to check they were ok" Don't make me laugh. If you called to your friend's house unannounced and they didn't answer, would you break in to check they were ok?


    And if some stranger appeared in the hallway "who the hell are you?!" would be the most civil thing I would have said.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 642 ✭✭✭Escapees


    I think the agent didn't 'break in' but rather just used a key they legally were in possession of. Should they have entered? Probably not, but I'd imagine it was a simple misunderstanding or miscommunication on their side.

    A key point here is that this appears to have been the first and ONLY time that the agent ever entered the tenant's property over a rental period of approx 3 years I think. And this incident was in the final days of the tenancy when the current tenant was moving on and the agent presumably had to make arrangements to advertise the property and find new tenants as soon as possible.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,042 ✭✭✭spaceHopper


    So the agent was concerned and called you after getting no answer or call back they went out to the apartment to see if you were there and talk to you, you didn't answer the door but they could hear movement inside ( could be a break in) so they went in. Instead of listening to them you give out. Did you ever find out what they wanted. You missed an opportunity to let them check over the place and approve returning your deposit agree the meter readings..... If you weren't ready, the polite thing to do would be answer the door and talk to them, asking them to come back tomorrow.... but you instead went off on them.

    You've now burned any good will.

    Here's how it will play out. They'll get a cleaner to come in and reclean the apartment after finding something you missed, they'll paint something else blaming you for excessive wear. All documented and after the bills are settled including meter reading they'll refund whatever is left of your deposit. Full days cleaning, 500, painter 500, materials 200... .you'll see maybe half of your deposit. They'll take their time too and blame it on electric Ireland, if you open a case with the RTB they'll delay refunding your deposit until after the case. Given you've told them not to contact you they'll respect that and you'll have to wait and see what happens.

    Brilliant well done, you have the moral high ground, they have your money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 707 ✭✭✭mykrodot


    Exactly! There is way to deal with matters like this, its business, it professional..... and it's called communication! Why is the first port of call anger and name calling? How professional is it calling the agents "sick and nasty"! Surely all along communication was the answer, not silence, not sucking it up, not happily signing leases where the OP was unsure of the validity of things.................we are talking 3 years here!

    The ball is in the agent's court now as OP has told them there will be no more contact. This could drag on and on and on.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    They trespassed on the property.

    They had no right to enter, and they used a key they had no right to use and entered the property without the permission of the tenant.

    Where's the miscommunication? There was no communication. Just a few missed calls.

    There's no other way to spin this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 946 ✭✭✭bog master






  • It seems the letting agents have already prepared their defense, so to speak.

    Here is what they sent me:

    On the first condition, they refer to bin charges.

    On the second condition, they have "taken photos of all areas", without stating any specific issues -- yet.

    Third, they say the "washer / drier" was not on the premises and was disposed of. The washing machine broke and I replaced it, yes -- now they are saying they are removing the perfectly new washing machine (and new fridge) I bought to replace the broken ones (at my own expense).

    Yes, I told them I would not agree to their final inspection due to how they conducted themselves in the past.

    In other words, they are preparing to scam me for even more money, knowing full well I plan to escalate to the RTB.

    These people are shameless, immoral scammers. How they live with their conscience is beyond me.

    Note also how they don't even acknowledge any scam against me, or their inappropriate conduct against me, over the course of the tenancy. It's funny how they only seem interested in law and conduct when it matters, to them and their interests only. How convenient.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭herbalplants


    Yup agent shouldn't have entered the property without consent.

    Remember the shills only get paid when you react to them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭meijin


    well, their "lease" says that you should replace broken equipment on your own, so you just followed their guidelines

    but, I hope you have receipts! make sure to request a refund, as it's LL's responsibility to fix/replace broken equipment like that

    PS in general... you're telling them too much, and too soon, no point arguing, you just need to prepare the case for RTB.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on




  • I have receipts, yes.

    I find it utterly bizarre, as you have stated, that the contract says I should replace all equipment at my own expense but when I do, they find issue with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,278 ✭✭✭meijin


    you've revealed your plan to the agent too soon...

    make sure to prepare all receipts, and request a refund through RTB

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • I agree, my fault.

    I'll play it safe in the meantime. I just despise being scammed and have found it hard to contain my emotions on this issue, as it has been going on for years and I have had to keep a lid on said emotions for that period. It's been incredibly stressful.





  • Shocking to see some so blasé about a LA just letting themselves in or calling around unannounced.

    id go mad. It’s completely illegal to do this!





  • I even started to question my own response to what happened, based on the responses here.

    I just cannot comprehend how anyone could justify the illegal entry of anyone into their private home, over which they have complete tenancy.

    But in the end, it's just wrong. And I will not change my opinion based on what I have read here. Either something is legally and morally wrong or it isn't. And in this case, I would like to think it's very, very obvious who is in the wrong here.

    And it ain't the tenant.

    I really appreciate your contribution here by the way, because up to recently I was starting to doubt whether I was in the right or wrong.





  • OP the answer to your original question (I think) is no they cannot do that. It may be too late or just not worth it but you could file a complaint with the RTB.

    A landlord or letting agent cannot just let themselves into your home. If they are doing so for an emergency such as a fire or gas leak they are allowed though.

    They are absolutely not allowed just let themselves in because you didn’t answer the phone or door. Even if it was your tenancy end date it clearly was not the agreed time to meet them.

    Even if it was they still can’t!





  • I had to read the OP again honestly to make sure I wasn’t going mad.

    Like I don’t care who’s knocking if I’m busy you can kindly fook off. I obviously wouldn’t ignore a knock if I had arranged to meet my LA or Landlord but I don’t know how some are demanding you were clearly a nightmare.

    Boggles the mind.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭shimadzu


    OP you asked for advice on the issue related to the renters tax credit last year, you were offered some good advice at the time but attacked posters who didn't align with your narrow views. When you post using your other account (the one with the picture of Nigel Farage in it) you have a tendency to leave information out that doesn't suit your narrative or drip feed information making it difficult for posters to assist you with your ongoing issues. Most leases have clauses in them that allow the landlord (or their agents) to enter a rental property as the lease comes to an end in order to inspect the property or in order to show potential tenants around. It appears the agent tried to contact you in advance and you refused to engage, what was stopping you from calling the agent back prior to starting to clean the apartment? Why wouldn't you answer the door when you knew you had a missed call from the letting agent? Why were you cleaning the apartment two days prior to moving out, were you aware that an inspection was due and were trying to delay it by not answering the phone or door?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,485 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Those clauses aren't worth the paper they're printed on if that's how they're written, any visit to the property by a landlord or their agent needs the tenant's consent, by law. Plenty of posters here need to read up on them seemingly. The tenant can't unreasonably deny these requests but that doesn't give the agent permission to enter after a missed call or whatever.





  • And as I said earlier, the letting agent admitted to me that she heard me inside and just decided to enter on that basis (where she just ignored my frustration at her entering to challenge me on whether she needed to hire a painter "...as it takes 2-days to arrange"; as if the painting in the apartment was my priority; it's the landlords; and an inspection was due to take place on Friday anyway).

    It was never on any other basis, just the brass neck of the agent to think they can do whatever they want and get away with it.

    I will absolutely pursue this as far as I can, no matter the cost. Because I've been scammed in the past (from a person in the US), and I swore to myself I would never allow that to happen again.

    People such as the letting agents who make a living off the back of lying to people to generate extra cash are fundamentally sick in the head. And someone needs to call them out, and I certainly intend to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭shimadzu


    Thats mad, they must just throw in the clauses for the crack so.

    The whole point of the clauses is to get the tenants consent in advance and make it a condition of the letting. It would appear that the agent tried to notify the OP that they would be comming and they also announced their presence by knocking. The OP appears to not want to engage.

    The OP has a history of bluster, last year they were going to report the agent to the RTB a year on it appears they have not done so.





  • Wrong.

    The letting agent made no communication with me at all that they would be arriving at the apartment, let alone that I had agreed to such an arrangement. In fact, the day that she entered the apartment was my first time even seeing her (every other communication was through email or call). We agreed to meet at 12pm on the Friday, that was the time for the final inspection, period. Nothing was agreed before that; she just turned up unannounced.

    Don't make things up as if you know more about this situation than me, please.

    "They also announced their presence by knocking" -- I didn't know who it was, and I wasn't expecting anyone to call at my door; not my cousin, my friend, my other half, the letting agent -- nobody was expected. I was shocked to hear someone entering; I could have been naked or anything.

    On the RTB point, I did discuss the matter with them and they told me the apartment was not registered. To my alarm when I checked the registry the other day, I still cannot find the address listed when I search for it. I will follow-up about this in due course.



  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭shimadzu


    You said they tried to phone you but you didn't answer.

    You knew a year ago they weren't RTB registered.

    Drip, drip, drip.



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