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Are we excited yet?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭BKtje


    I agree with a lot of what you say and most original crypto chain fees are incredibly high. I'd be in the same boat as you with regards to fees but that has changed since moving to the solana eco system.

    Do I see crypto being used as a currency in the future? Perhaps but that's not what I think it's main use case will be. Governments for the most part won't want to lose control of their economy and that's probably for the best.



  • Registered Users Posts: 805 ✭✭✭Tango One


    Which one of you was it :)


    "Cryptocurrency trader, Graham De Barra, with an address at Rua Praia, Ribeira Seca in Portugal was the subject of a Revenue audit case for the under-declaration of income tax. Total settlements exceeded €202k, which included €89k in tax, €45k in interest and €67k in penalties. The total amount of €202k was unpaid. "



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Alexus25


    So I was thinking of investing approx 2k in Bitcoin on coinbase, any thoughts or suggestions?



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    He's my new hero.

    Doubly so after finding he's likely a human rights campaigner who has said some very intelligent things about decriminalising drugs that align well with my own views

    As I said in another thread, I was just after reading the tax treaty with Portugal. I saw no mention of enforcement, so I don't think the Portuguese are going to go chasing payment on Revenue's behalf.

    Also with regard to CGT, the treaty makes no mention of that steaming turd of a 3 year CGT disposal rule, so it's probably safe to say it's unenforceable hopium nature is recognised at official levels.

    I wonder did some Irish lawyer try it on with his Portuguese counterpart when they were negotiating the treaty and got a reply related to unnatural acts with his burro?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,351 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    It's been in a hole for the past 2 years. You are abit late to the party. Some here think it's still a good bet and could possibly even double from here but equally you.could be left holding bitcoin worth half what you.paid for it for a year or 2.

    I'm certainly not buying in at this stage. I bought somewhere close to the bottom in last collapse so will take my cash in the next few weeks I'm thinking.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,140 ✭✭✭deadduck


    Although I hold neither, if I were you, I’d be doing something like 60/30 BTC/ETH, and then maybe 10% into SOL (or ADA).

    Of course DCA is always advisable too, and don’t be in a hurry for profits. ‘Time in the market’ is always better than ‘timing the market’!



  • Registered Users Posts: 45 ZMOONY




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,140 ✭✭✭deadduck


    This is probably a stupid hypothesis, but I wonder will this mean the likes of the Ethereum ETF will arrive sooner rather than later?



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Alexus25




  • Registered Users Posts: 416 ✭✭HGVRHKYY


    All EU countries are part of a programme where they will cooperate for the recovery of taxes for individuals from other jurisdictions, so revenue could definitely pursue that through the Portuguese revenue service; that's likely how they obtained his address/details.


    You're only safe if you either leave the EU or do things correctly (this means becoming non-resident in Ireland, which takes 3+ years as far as I remember. But even then, until you go all the way and become non domiciled, you have a limit of how much you can dispose of apparently (think it's around €1m or so). Anyone considering relocating for something like this needs to do a lot of research and be certain to cover themselves.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Alexus25


    Thank you, where are you getting your insight from if you dont hold either? Also, what's ETH and what's SOL and ADA and DCA.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,752 ✭✭✭el diablo


    Looks like you've a lot of research to do before jumping into the market. Bitcoin's price is at an all time high now so it's a risky time to get involved. The price can continue to rise from here and go a lot higher but only speculate with money you can afford to lose. ETH is Ethereum, the number two ranked crypto (it's still 18% below its previous all time high price). SOL (Solana) and ADA (Cardano) are two riskier plays with more potential upside.

    (DCA)-Dollar-cost averaging is the system of regularly buying a fixed dollar amount of a specific investment, regardless of the price.

    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dollarcostaveraging.asp

    We're all in this psy-op together.🤨



  • Registered Users Posts: 156 ✭✭Alexus25




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Would have been cheaper to pay. 89k owed now 202k.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,351 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Not paid though.

    I doubt they will see a penny if he has left Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Ireland Inc®️ 2016: "Crypto? What's that? I'm sure it's like gambling"

    Ireland Inc®️ 2017: "Come on lads, cough up the CGT - 33%, thanks!"

    Ireland Inc®️ 2022: "You made a loss? Tough sh!t investing in a risky asset"

    Ireland Inc®️ 2024: "That crypto you have stored away, that is undeclared income. Pay IT, PRSI, USC. 50%, thanks!"

    And they wonder why all the young people are moving away from this hell hole 🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 889 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    I would disagree with people saying entering the market now is risky, it looks healthier to me now than it ever has before, it really depends on peoples expectations from here, if the guy with 2k buys BTC now at 73k usd, then 110k is 1000 profit, and 90k is 500 profit. Ok something may happen now where BTC drops to 60k and doesn't go back up to 90-110 for a few months but I haven't seen anyone with an understanding in the crypto market say BTC wont reach 100k in the near future.

    There's a high probability that you can make at least 25% profit on BTC within this year from buying at this point, the problem is a lot of people will now start appearing with expectations of much greater than 25% profit. But still 25% is good money.

    Alts is a different story, put 2k in now and you could still 3-5x your money, but a reasonable understanding of the market is required, which one to pick, when to get out, when a drop of 50% of your money can be somewhat normal in a healthy market, etc.

    Where I can understand people feeling like they have missed the boat at this point, to say you cannot make money from here in a bull market is just plain wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Secret Token (SCRT) blasting off 24%. Bought a nice chunk of this in November purely for the 20-24% staking rewards. Was thinking "that's a nice cushion on a risky token that has a 21 day unstake period". didn't think it would triple in value as well 😊



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,351 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I'm not aware of a private individual having to pay anything other than cgt on disposal of crypto.

    Can you direct me to something that says its subject to income tax and the rest?



  • Registered Users Posts: 889 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    You can buy some crypto, hold onto it for a while, sell it for a profit and you owe cgt.

    If you do that frequently enough, buy and sell for a profit on a number of occasions it can then at some point be deemed an income, so income tax can be due. Where exactly the line between the two is I’ve no idea.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Only going off the article discussed above:

    Cryptocurrency trader, Graham De Barra, with an address at Rua Praia, Ribeira Seca in Portugal was the subject of a Revenue audit case for the under-declaration of income tax. Total settlements exceeded €202k, which included €89k in tax, €45k in interest and €67k in penalties. The total amount of €202k was unpaid.

    If Revenue decide that your trading behaviours exceed a certain threshold they will pursue you for income tax instead of CGT. This is based off the "Aggregate Consideration" a nonsense perspective on your investments which is the sum of all the sell amounts of a specific product. It is scumbaggery of the highest level by Government/Revenue (just look at the "interest" and "penalties" amounts above) and is clear evidence of a highly socialist state.




  • Registered Users Posts: 889 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    Once this whole picture starts to assemble, devaluation of fiat, taxes on the transfer of BTC to fiat, what Saylor is saying becomes clearer and clearer.

    You do not sell your bitcoin folks



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,351 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Thanks. I get you now but it's clearly different for traders as opposed to the ordinary worker dipping into crypto occasionally.

    Still cgt is more than enough to be paying.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    It sounds like he moved to Portugal for tax reasons but was hit with undeclared profits, he might have sold before the move for liquidity. If you do move abroad there is always a chance they change the tax rules there too. As far as I’m aware it’s capital gains tax of 33%.

    I think it was India that was looking for 50% of every transaction. That’s nuts, it implied even onboarding cash.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I would agree. The person also has a masters degree in law and likely would be held in high regard by many to the point I could possibly see him getting pro bono assistance should this ever be contested. From what I can see they have been resident in Portugal for some years so the basis for Revenue's claims might not be cut and dried.

    From my own experience revenue are a lazy, greedy, pack of dogs, all too ready to try and take a nip. Last year I received a missive from them claiming I owed them for unpaid CGT. After some time investigating the matter, I found in their own feckin records that it had been paid in full and on time. Imagine having to pay an accountant to sort out Revenue's lazy false accusations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 20,047 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    What gets me is the neck of the irish government going after individuals with heinous levels of penalties when Ireland's main line of business is it's one giant tax minimisation/avoidance scheme run on behalf of US MNCs. Many countries in the EU have a very negative opinion of Ireland as a result.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,208 ✭✭✭Markus Antonius


    Depends on what you consider "dipping". Revenue could absolutely consider an ordinary worker as being a "trader" and request income tax instead of CGT. If you repeatedly have an aggregate consideration (total sell amount of all assets in a year) in the same investment product (i.e. crypto) that exceeds a certain threshold and you do this for multiple years - they can and will nail you for income tax.



  • Registered Users Posts: 889 ✭✭✭erlichbachman


    Sol holding out well so far in this dip, seems to be doing its own thing these days, very impressive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,936 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It's more risky.

    Buy when the market is low, red, and no one is talking about crypto. Think about selling when it's hitting ATH, making some headlines and has been green for weeks.

    However if someone is familiar with the market, yes they can come in "late" e.g. now or the last few weeks, but that's really pushing it. Alternatively some choose to wait for a big bull drop and see if they can make money on the upswing on the other side in the short term (e.g. 2017 or 2021)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,936 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe



    FET looking pretty resilient with that drop. Apparently putting .ai in the name has worked wonders.



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