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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans in OP**

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  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭Mackinac


    Another drugs seizure in West Cork yesterday -

    And one from Toormore in 1987.

    I believe there have also been seizures at Dunlough Bay (Three Castlehead where Y Ungerer said Sophie had a vision of the white lady).

    I wonder if Sophie had any idea what was going on in West Cork, it can’t have been the rural idyll she imagined.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,243 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    She probably wasn't there enough to be have much of an insight into , or be bothered, about these things.

    Plus it was 30 or so years ago when she was visiting the area.

    Where the same activities as prevalent then as they are today.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,716 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Sophie was bothered enough to ask Josie to send her press cuttings of Alfie’s case.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,511 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    I did not disappear. I was working.

    You have also disappeared from this thread on numerous occassions making you a hypocrit!

    The errors on the first page of the DPP report are obvious. They shouldn't need explaining.

    The DPP found in favour of Bailey purely because he submitted a blood sample yet he admitted there was no blood of the murderer to compare it to! Farcical! Tests only actually work when you have a control to compare it to!

    Would a judge find someone innocent of drink driving if they submitted a urine sample alone? Of course not. It would actually have to show a positive result. This is a simple analagy by the way.

    Your posts are becoming increasingly aggresive which is always an indication of a poster losing a debate!



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The DPP found in favour of Bailey purely because he submitted a blood sample yet he admitted there was no blood of the murderer to compare it to! Farcical! Tests only actually work when you have a control to compare it to!

    The DPP didn't find in favour of anyone FFS! The DPP reviewed the evidence presented by AGS and noted that Bailey had voluntarily offered DNA samples which we all know if put to a jury in a trial would probably not go in AGS's favour.

    Why do you persist in making up some kind of narrative that doesn't exist?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,243 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Her neighbour, whos property she shared a drive way to and whose shed was close to her own house?

    I think her interest in Alfie's little hash business court case is not unexpected.

    I'm taking about her knowledge of the wider area being used as some sort of drugs gateway.

    I doubt she knew much about it, being such an infrequent visitor.

    There was a post here a few days or weeks ago suggesting that it could have been a group of people involved in the drug trade that killed her as she confronted them while they were retrieving stashed drugs from her property.

    If Sophie's property was being used to store drugs it's a line of enquiry we would have heard about by now.

    It would not have gone unnoticed to the local Gardai or public.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,511 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    He found it was objective evidence of innocence. It wasn't.

    Wordgames over found innocent or in favour? Its the same thing. Found in favour of his innocence. Happy?

    There is no mention of DNA evidence in the DPP report. It was therefore likely for blood group testing.

    Even if it was for future DNA testing, theres also no evidence of the killers "DNA" being shed at the scene of the crime. The DPP said as much. I suppose i have to interpret that part of the report also?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    It isn't wordgames. You and others seem to misunderstand the role of the DPP based on text you've written here.

    As for the DPP claiming it was "objective evidence of innocence" - maybe read the report properly because that is not what they wrote - the text actually used is (note the use of "indicative")...

    His voluntary provision of fingerprints and a specimen of his blood is objectively indicative of innocence.

    Also bear in mind that Bailey would have no idea whether the person who committed the murder left DNA or other evidence at the scene (especially given that it was suggested Bailey went there ina drunken state)



  • Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭jesuisjuste


    I think almost anyone who's next door neighbour being investigated for a crime would want to know more about it. Back then she wouldn't be looking up irishtimes.com and it wouldn't be reported in the press in France. Clippings from Josie is about the only way she would be able to follow up on it. It would be weirder if she wasn't interested.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,243 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious




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  • Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭jesuisjuste




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,511 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Just give us the name of one other suspect who you think is more likely than Bailey? And we will go through the evidence.

    Bjsc has access to all statements and can provide anything you want to back up your case.

    Off you go. The floor is yours Seth.



  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭Mackinac


    Yes, in the one of the articles the drugs were brought by boat to Toormore in 1987.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,137 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Among the "errors" in the DPP report was your claim about the DPP deciding on the source of a bloodstain on the door. Multiple posters pointed out to you there is not such statement in the report. Do you withdraw your claim now? Because you replied to this post first and did not reply to those earlier posts querying your remark. You did not withdraw the remark or support it with reference to the report. So in that sense, you are trying to "disappear" a false unfounded claim that was found out.

    Again, you continue with another false claim about the DPP report. That is not the sole reason why the DPP made that assessment, nor did they "find" in favour of Bailey.

    So on the one hand, you have tried to allege that the DPP assumed the bloodstain on the door was the murderers. Therefore - that was something to compare against (potentially). And in this post, you are trying to allege the DPP knew there was nothing to compare against. So from one post to the next, you completely contradict your own claim, without any withdrawal of the previous claim or acknowledgement it was incorrect.

    The point is that at the time Bailey offered the sample, he did not know what would be found in subsequent tests. If Bailey was the murderer, how could he know for sure he left no hair, no fingerprints, no saliva, did not pick up any new scratches or scrapes at the scene, for a murder at close quarters and presumably in the dark? So that is not invalidated by the subsequent tests not discovering anything to relate back to Bailey or the murderer. You are failing to distinguish between what Bailey's knowledge at that point in time and the DPP's increased information at a later point of time.

    And, that is not what a "control" is in relation to a test like this.

    As for the rest of your remarks, then I refer you to your own previous post, which has not aged well:

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121889115#Comment_121889115

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,511 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Its in the DPP report, no evidence of the samples you state were ever found at the scene being linked to the murderer.

    It will give a longer reply later, busy offline.



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭Zola1000


    All land owners surrounding house, could all be considered suspects. When she was with Bruno she met a man who was french origin and also had his intentions to buy that house..and seemed annoyed he had failed that time to purchase it. Some hold grudges who knows. Land and property can cause serious issues as can right of ways , authority to drive ways , closing gates. All night appear light but I've seen numerous examples on rural Ireland of threating behaviour and especially towards people not from island.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,137 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    "Its in the DPP report."

    Is it? Because this is what I see:

    Bailey willingly gave his fingerprints and a sample of his blood to the Gardaí for analysis and examination. These specimens were given at a time when he was aware that apparent bloodstains had been found at the scene.

    As above - You are failing to distinguish between Bailey's knowledge at that point in time and the DPP's increased information at a later point of time. The DPP's assessment of Bailey's offer is not based on what the tests done up to that point discovered, but based on the potential of what could be discovered.

    And you have still not withdrawn your earlier "extraordinary" (phrasing from your post) claim about the DPP.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭bjsc




  • Registered Users Posts: 30,137 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    From the information you have seen, was there any statement from someone familiar with the gate confirming that the block was at the gate before the murder?

    Or is there still a possibility that it was removed at same time as the murder?

    Thanks.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    But there's nothing to make Bailey stand out as all of the so-called evidence against him is rubbish - there is nothing of value to point towards Bailey aside from the gobsh1te thinking sarcastic remarks were smart. What motive did Bailey have? What opportunity did he have?

    I'm not going to name a particular person as the suspect without evidence (I don;t want to get banned!), but we do know there were others who had motive or opportunity. There were also a few people who had both.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    There's nothing linking anyone else to the murder afaik

    Bailey has been convicted of murder in a french court!!



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    There is nothing linking anyone to the murder!

    The stuff you think you have on Bailey is not a link and from a prosecution POV has all been dismissed by multiple DPPs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,243 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    But there's nothing to make Bailey stand out as all of the so-called evidence against him is rubbish

    Here we go again.

    We all know there is not enough evidence to bring Bailey to trial.

    But relative to all other potential suspects he stands out like a sore thumb.

    Yet do people continue to insist that he doesn't.



  • Registered Users Posts: 30,137 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    That's a more damning verdict on the French justice system than Bailey.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,304 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    Oh I would say a conviction for murder is a definite link albeit not to the same standard of proof required here

    Is there anything linking anyone else to the murder?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The French murder trial didn't require a standard of proof and went with the rubbish AGS sent them. It was ridiculous to suggest it was a valid trial.

    And again, there is nothing linking Bailey to the murder unless you're referring to the stupid bits of sarcasm



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,750 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    But relative to all other potential suspects he stands out like a sore thumb.

    Bailey only stands out because you want him to.

    If you actually want to pursue justice for Sophie then you cannot start off with a mindset of "how do we pin this on Bailey?" which is exactly where you're coming from



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,716 ✭✭✭chooseusername


    Thanks, the police sketch is correct then. The block is not from the corner of the pump house nearest the lane, which makes it more baffling. Do you have any photos of Sophie’s gate and the area around there?

    There was a poster in a previous thread, since closed, that was at Shirley’s party the year before the murder. She spoke about the difficulty they had finding the place. She was a passenger in the car and got out to either open the gate or close it after them, or perhaps both, I forget now. But she did say she had to move a half-block with her foot to either close the gate or to keep it open. They’re still here on Boards as a mod, but probably got fed up with the crap on here. There were some weird posters on it, so nothing changes really.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭bjsc


    The only mention of the block (sort of) is Alfie who says the gate was held open and closed with chicken wire. It.would appear that the blocks may have been missing for a while as other photos show brambles growing in the gap. The photo of Sophie from the home video appears to show a different block missing plus the lid is in place but I'm not sure what the date of that was.

    My personal opinion, based on my experience and on the advice of former colleagues who specialise in blood pattern analysis, is that the block was in situ at the time of the attack. The blood on it is much more indicative, for the most part, of contact staining. It was used as a weapon to deliver the final blow, given where it was located in relationto her, then Sophie's blood stained body could not have come into contact with it after that time.



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