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Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,431 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    No room on either Richmond Road or Clonliffe Road. Where would you put it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭hamburgham




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭hamburgham




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,872 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Along the Tolka……

    Hence the “along the Tolka” and “assume it would be pricey”.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    If they made Richmond Road a one-way street then there'd be enough space for a two-way cycle lane. That road is not fit for purpose for any type of road user at the moment.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Christ, yes! The number of times I've watched cars mount the footpath, close calls with pedestrians, the road covered in broken glass and bumpers. etc.

    A very dangerous road, not fit for purpose at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    There's no reason it even needs to be a two-way street. You have Clonliffe Road and Griffith Avenue a stone's throw away. Or better still, just make it a cul-de-sac for vehicular traffic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,829 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I don't think it would be necessary to make all of Richmond Road one-way to provide cycle lanes, maybe just the middle part. The cycle lanes would have to be along the road on the south half of Richmond Road but it could turn in towards the river between Richmond Hall and the dilapidated stone building. Use the existing bridge to Distillery Road and then continue north through the GAA lands.

    South of Convent Ave is probably wide enough for cycle lanes if the petrol station was bought out and the scrub between road and river removed. Could then be one-way between Convent Ave and GPR. That removes conplaints of having to drive a long way in the other direction to go somewhere close which is against the one-way. I can't see the whole thing being made one-way and it's probably not a battle worth fighting.

    South of the Luke Kelly Bridge, you probably have to wait for major works on the flats on Poplar Row, then a linear park could be created along the river.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    That removes conplaints of having to drive a long way in the other direction to go somewhere close which is against the one-way.

    Not to disagree with what you are saying in general, but I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of this, motorists complaining about having to drive a bit further, when pedestrians and cyclists are forced to travel long distances all over the city due to lack of permeability between streets and estates.

    For instance I live about 200 meters as the bird flies from a major bus stop and shops, that I instead have to walk 10 minutes to get to them because of a stupid wall (and just grass both sides) between two housing developments.

    I wonder why we worry about the complaints of motorists, while completely ignoring pedestrians and cyclists needs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,829 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    That's a completely separate issue and really has nothing to do with what I said. The estates you are talking about were built like that because that is the way things were done at the time. It could be changed and there'd likely be Local Authority support but I'm sure there would be a lot of opposition from the residents. That is a local issue and has nothing to do with the merits of changing traffic flows elsewhere. The common theme is resistance to change, even logical change but after that, the situations aren't comparable.

    A proposal to make Richmond Road one-way would undoubtedly be met with huge opposition. There is a significant number of businesses and people living on or just off Richmond Road plus healthcare facilities. It would also push all traffic onto the road on one end. The is little benefit to making it one-way compared to the other consequences.

    As I said, if the goal is to provide a cycle route along the Tolka then there are better options actually along the river, away from traffic and unlikely to face much opposition.



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    The issues on Richmond Road go far beyond just a cycle route. Richmond Road is simply dangerous as is and not fit for purpose. Even if you don't put a cycle lane near it, it still needs to be made one way, just to make it safe, specially as an increasing number of new apartments being built on it.

    Frankly it doesn't matter if locals object, it simply isn't safe and it needs to be fixed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Somebody should invent a device to brighten up an area in the dark.

    We could call it a "light".



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Another street that could do with being made 1 way and installing a contra flow cycle lane would Vernon Avenue between Nolans supermarket and the seafront.

    There is a proposal to install a segregated cycle way from the Artane roundabout, down Brookwood Avenue, Sybil Hill and Vernon Avenue, and just when you get to a point where you can see the C2C cycleway we will be asked to divert down Kincora Road and Castle Avenue instead. Naturally, any sensible person will cycle straight down the road in front of them to join up with C2C.

    I'd go further again and copy what has been done in Malahide, and pedestrianise the street outside Beshoffs et al during the summer months, to facilitate outdoor dining from the plethora of restaurants in that section.

    But then Mrs Murphy won't be able to drive to the pharmacy beside Beshoff that she likes , or Johnny can't lash his car up on the path outside San Sab with his hazards on while he collects a takeaway.

    Zero ambition in this city.



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,319 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    It's the businesses there that are the problem. DCC put bollards where the parking spots are, basically changing the parking 90 degrees, and there was someone out illegally removing them inside half an hour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    I'd say the width of the road is the true problem. It is far too narrow to allow 2 vehicles to pass each other by.

    One way to the seafront from the Kincora Road crossroads would be much safer, and then motorists can use Castle Avenue, Oulton Road and Belgrove Road to turn onto Kincora Road if needs be, or go through Conquer Hill.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,121 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Vernon ave is ridiculous, especially as they all drive range rovers around there. It should have been sorted out years ago but they leave these things too long and then the idea of change is unpalpable for many.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Spot on Monk. There is a huge car park available across the road on the seafront. Can't be using that though.

    Such a shame that the cycle route from Artane to Clontarf will be properly done for 90%, and then will tail off at the aforementioned shambles that is Vernon Avenue (Nolans end).




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,121 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    i'm from the brookwood area, i'd be very surprised if this bike lane got the go ahead, i think it would reduce brookwood avenue to one lane at the howth road so it would take much longer for cars to get through that junction, people would go nuts. i'd be all for it obviously.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    I'm living just behind Brookwood Ave. Councillor Stocker was at my door recently asking for votes. I brought this cycle lane up, no response.

    I emailed Councillor Cooney about it, assuming as Green Party rep she will have the most interest. My query got farmed onto some department at DCC, awaiting response.

    We move at glacial pace in this country when it comes to public representation.

    And that Brookwood Avenue/Howth Road junction is a sh1t5how anyway, can't make it much worse.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six


    They don't seem to have an issue with making reductions to single lanes though. It's like that outbound on Eastwall road now, due to recent changes. It really slows down motor traffic, waiting behind cars that are turning.

    I also spotted something about a new cycle lane and bus gate on Mobhi Road. No motor traffic towoards Griffith Ave., Ballymun, between 16.00 and 20.00. I need to have a closer look at it.

    Perhaps we need to change the thread title, or switch to the "cities reducing car access" thread. 😂



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    That will be part of BusConnects, the Ballymun corridor, which ABP approved a few days ago.

    Expect to see a lot more of this as more of the BusConnects routes are approved across the city. Each corridor would likely deserve their own threads.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭Citizen  Six




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,829 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Regardless of how dangerous Richmond Road is, the opposition to making it one-way would likely be huge. Proposing it would almost certainly result in nothing changing and any subsequent lesser proposals being met with suspicion of being a precursor to eventual one-way so again, nothing changes. Like I said, there are other options which, while not perfect, could still majorly improve the situation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭loco_scolo


    Have the residents not been pushing for this for a while now? They are sick of people constantly mounting footpaths and installed flower beds to try to minimise it. Not sure how much opposition would come from direct residents of that street?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,829 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Some residents might have been pushing for it but I'm sure there are a lot more residences, businesses and others which would be bitterly opposed to such a change.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    I think the above discussion is somewhat moot. It's a cycle lane so going on experience, it would undoubtedly be met with massive opposition where those opposed to it (who obviously are in favour of cycle lanes) believe that the proposed one will make traffic worse, cause more emissions, cause delays to the emergency services, make it more dangerous for kids, the elderly and the disabled to cross the road and it would bring anti-social behaviour to a quiet residential street.



  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Who cares about such opposition. You can't sneeze in this city without someone objecting.

    If it is the right thing to do, to create a safer environment, then it should be done, despite any objections.

    BusConnects, Metrolink, etc. face objections like this all over the city, yet we are still going ahead with them, because they are the right thing to do.

    Anyway, many if not most residents in the area would actually support a change like this, specially if it reduced the through traffic through the road, which is the majority of traffic, not local residents. It would help create a much safer and quieter street in front of their homes, which most would welcome.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,992 ✭✭✭downtheroad


    Photo taken just now on Brookwood Avenue. If cars can be parked in this manner there is plenty of room for a segregated cycle lane. So many of the grass verges are wrecked after cars parking on them through winter. The verges could be repurposed into cycle lanes.

    There would be a pinch point at the railway bridge, where it would need to be designated as a shared surface for cyclists and pedestrians.

    However there is ample space on the majority of the road, same as Sybill Hill (see all the cars parked on the grass verges on the weekends) to see this through.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,829 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Who cares about such opposition? - the decision makers!

    BusConnects and Metrolink support my point, they bent over backwards to accommodate complainants. BusConnects in particular has been compromised to hell meaning the final designs nothing like the original ambition. Also see proposals for new bridges to replace LCs on rail lines which went nowhere. These are major projects costing billions and benefiting the entire Dublin region. Recent posts in this thread highlight where local objections have resulted in smaller less ambitious projects being gutted.

    Experience tells us that if DCC proposed making all Richmond Road a one-way street, it would most likely be exactly as it currently is in 10 years time. As I said, you could probably get 90% of the benefits without going full one-way.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭maisie45


    How do the trees fit into your plan, do you envisage cycling around them of are they to be removed.

    As for saying removing right turns onto the Howth Road wont make a bad situation worse, its clear you live behind Brookwood Avenue and not on it.

    I live daily with the effect of removing right and left hand turns, it makes bad traffic areas ten times worse, I walk now with traffic constantly back up spewing pollution and this is supposed to help the climate.

    I also have to avert my gaze from ugly broken orange plastic poles everywhere. Is this going to happen on this busy traffic road too.

    There are black plastic bollards on footpaths too, many broken so really dangerous on dark evenings.

    Cyclists are now entering a local footpath at speed so they can join a two way cycling lane without stopping their bike, its inevitable that a pedestrian is going to be injured.

    And the cycle lanes are empty most of the day, many cyclists now work from home, elderly didabled, most women not intetested in cycling, its a male minority pursuit, schools are closed for a very large part of the year and in any event parents walk the dog with the children to school so wont cycle no matter how many cycling lanes are installed. They also wont cycle if its windy or wet so no cycling from sept to May.

    Its all becoming a pointless waste of time, worsening traffic congestion, degrading the environment, causing huge stress and delay to motorists, damaging the economy as people turn to online shopping snd take outs etc rather than sit in their car wasting their spare time.😡



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