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"It's what you do next that counts"

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,483 ✭✭✭Lazare


    Great to see you too D, you ran a great race. Bang on what you predicted when we were chatting.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭Wottle


    Starting to have doubts over running Rotterdam marathon.

    I feel I'm getting into good shape and am excited by a spring and summer of 5k to 10k racing.

    After my recent long run, I pulled up quite lame, heel and back.

    It got me thinking about how much time I'm sacrificing by doing Rotterdam. It took me six weeks after Valencia to finally feel like myself again.

    If I run Rotterdam, I can see a slight PB but then again I have Valencia end of year which will be a full on assault.

    I've also got the Berlin half the week before Rotterdam, going over with a group, so I could potentially give this a rattle if not doing Rotterdam.

    Any thoughts welcome



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,626 ✭✭✭py


    The long undulating run on Monday didn't make sense to me after you raced the 5Km on Sunday. An easy few Km or a rest day would have been more appropriate, or else skipping the 5Km.

    We have both suffered with PF so I know the guessing game that you are going through right now. When I do a session or a long run, it is followed by a rest day or a very easy short run. If I race, it is followed by a rest day. The heel will have suffered with the back to back intensity of a race and then stress of a long run.

    A few easy days of very easy running will get the heel back on track for Rotterdam but imo ye can't mess around with the recovery of intense/long runs when dealing with PF.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭Wottle


    Thanks PY for taking the time to reply. Yes you're a million percent correct on a few counts.

    The 5k/ long run combo was not wise. I guess I've been telling myself I'm not marathon training and have been making it up to a degree.

    The previous long run also didn't go well but there's excuses for that too, so maybe my view of Rotterdam is a little blurred.

    The PF is certainly still a factor, I'm definitely managing it a hell of a lot better than previous years but the aftermath of Monday's long run had me dragging the foot along the floor, much better today after rest.

    The good news going forward is that I'm leaving one of my gigs which frees up an extra two days for my own running, which will hopefully help with continuing management of PF.

    How's yours going btw?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 919 ✭✭✭marathon2022


    If you are not injured do it, you never know what will happen between now and Valencia.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭Wottle


    Never thought of it from that perspective, definitely something to consider. Thanks for that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,865 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Sorry to hear about the issues, but like py above I really can't believe you did a 20-mile LR (or any LR) the day after a 100% raced 5k. Just asking for trouble, and I'm sure it's something you would advise your athletes not to do.

    But given your history, I'm 100% sure you will travel to Rotterdam and race it! 😀

    Mind yourself in the meantime and best of luck either way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,626 ✭✭✭py


    I think some reflection on why the previous long run was poor could be worthwhile. Understanding what aspects within your control had a positive/negative impact on why you felt it went poorly. Fuel, attire, fatigue, sleep, pace etc are all worthwhile reviewing. It needs to be an honest reflection without BSing yourself.

    My own PF is very manageable these days. It was fine yesterday when in my original reply and then today its at me today after a late evening run around. It will settle throughout the day and over night provided I get good sleep. The plated shoes have helped a lot but I am slowly trying to wean myself off them for easy runs. I'll continue to use them for speed sessions or long runs. I have been holding back on my easy runs a little. The fitness is there for me to up the pace. There is minimal benefit to me in doing this so I have decided to keep them easy to very easy so that I can continue to get out running. It can be tough at times keeping the ego in check but it has allowed me to keep running regularly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭Wottle


    Thanks Murph, had a good laugh out loud there, you certainly do know my history and my wife would agree.

    I'm thinking I'll one more long run a go when feeling a little more fresh and then make a call.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭Wottle


    Good to hear you're managing it well.

    The long run two weeks ago, I definitely have excuses, I was running a camp with 22 runners, covered a 100k which is my highest weekly mileage in some time. I also wore too many layers (tracksuit bottoms) as I didn't want anymore bites, plus it was warm.

    The weekend gone was just a different kind of suffering. Maybe 5k race and long run is not the best move but I've actually done this plenty over last few years, including only a couple of weeks ago after the Amsterdam parkrun. It honestly never takes that much out of me, so I didn't think twice about doing it.

    But I was sore/lame, confidence took a hit.

    Just back from 8k and the body feels normal again (heel is doing its usual though). Maybe I was over reacting with initial post but I am going to stick to plan above, long run will be done Monday or Tuesday next week and fresh.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭Wottle


    March 18th to 24th

    Monday - Last weeks 20 miler, already discussed.

    Tuesday - Legs still tired so got on the bike for a spin to Jonny foxes and back by stepaside, about 75 minutes.

    Wednesday - Rest day but busy with athletics in primary school.

    Thursday - My last Thursday work run. Mixed emotions, a great group and I'll miss them but also looking forward to concentrating on my own running.

    Friday - 5 miles easy in the Boston 12s, not sure about them.

    Saturday - Marlay Parkrun 19'34, fun morning racing against a few from my training group. Legs still a bit heavy but didn't stop me leading for first 500m, I was wondering where the hell was everyone. Then about 6 runners went by me and I could relax a little more. It definitely wasn't a max effort like Tallaght 5k but not far off.

    Sunday - 10 miles with company, upto Bohernabreena reservoir and back.

    Almost certain I won't be doing Rotterdam marathon, I've actually put my number up for sale through their website.

    I'll race Berlin half instead the week before and then focus fully on getting my 5k down.

    Thanks for all the input on the matter.

    And 100 days of sweets, chocolate, jellies, biscuits, crisps, fizzy drinks etc and 90 days of some form of S&C every day.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭Wottle


    March 25th to 31st

    Monday - easy group 5k, followed by 4 miles easy an hour later. New shoes arrived and wanted to check them out. The zoom fly 5, like bricks, demoted immediately to walking shoes.

    Tuesday - highlight of the week 8*1k at 4'12 Kilometer pace off 60 secs standing recovery. Felt like I could have done this all day long.

    Wednesday - woke up with a scratchy throat. 7 miles easy with a few strides in the middle.

    Thursday - Scratchy throat was now a head cold. Debated whether or not to do planned session. Decided to give it a go but was prepared to stop if needed. 3 sets of 3*400 at goal 5k pace. 30 secs standing recovery between efforts and 3 minute walk between sets. Loved this session, stolen from Steve Magness, although he has 4*400. Felt solid and all reps were 86 to 88 secs. Changed into my old spikes for 3*200m off 200 walk to finish, 41, 36, 35. I've ordered a pair of dragon flys, looking forward to more sessions on the track but not in Irishtown, the track is in awful condition and I thought it had been resurfaced?

    Friday - Rest day, trying to shake this head cold.

    Saturday - planned on parkrun but having walked the course beforehand, decided I'd be stupid to run.

    Sunday - Wanted to do 5k at 4'15/6'50 pace and take a lactate reading, see if sub 90 in Berlin next week is a realistic target. Felt shlt on the warm up. Changed into alphaflys for Tempo effort and immediately felt better. Lots of distractions on the concert field, junior parkrun setup, other runners, and a bloody nose. Cleared my nose a little too aggressively and it wouldn't stop streaming. Averaged 4'08/6'39 and the lactate was 3.5 mmol, a little too high but given I was running faster than I should have, I think I'm a 7/2 shot for sub 90 but hopefully odds on for a PB 93'25.

    Nothing too crazy planned for this week, just to shake the head cold and feel fresh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 919 ✭✭✭marathon2022


    Your in great shape, certainly short odds on a sub 90. Best of luck



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭Wottle


    Berlin half 1:36:47 - not the race I was hoping for.

    Post edited by Wottle on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭Wottle


    During the summer I read over the last few pages of my log. I found it a frustrating read, some poor decision making and a complete lack of listening to my peers advice.

    I was 29 when I first started this log, I'm now 46, and it's about time I started showing a bit of training maturity. If I can, I believe I still have PB potential over some race distances.

    I’ve come to terms with the fact that I’ll always have a bit of impulsiveness, but I’ll do my best to keep it under control.

    My medical issues with the stomach that first arose in Feb 2023 still linger but have become more manageable, well at least over the summer.

    I've had a number of races since the start of the year but most were mediocre and some downright awful.

    A few months back I came across James Copeland on the Dan Nash pod. He talked about his own training (Norwegian singles method) and it sounded like music to my ears, so I explored it further. Three sub threshold sessions a week, the work totaling about 25% of your weekly running volume, everything else was to be super easy, less than 70% of max HR.

    Also at the same time I was running with the amazing ecoli once a week and I was lucky enough to have him write a program for me.

    I followed the plan for a few weeks before heading to Portugal for 5 weeks. I continued to follow the plan but concentrated my paces more in the sub threshold bracket.

    Before going to Portugal I ran 20:47 for 5k. The day after I returned home from my break, I ran 20:05 in Marlay.

    The training has clearly worked. I'm now fully following the NSM plan and am starting to feel super strong. I was a little under the weather last week but all training paces are back in line.

    I'm carrying some extra timber and finding it hard to shift.

    I've got Charleville half this weekend, it's looking to be quite windy, so not expecting anything quick, an honest effort is all.

    I have an entry for Valencia marathon and would love to beat 3:18. The log is to document the journey, keep me accountable and hopefully demonstrate some running maturity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 846 ✭✭✭Infoseeker1975


    All the best with Charleville, I am doing that also, as it is an out and back in course hopefully the gale force wind will help for some part of it!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭Wottle




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭Wottle


    Week starting September 8th

    Monday - Seem to be over the sniffles I'd been trying to keep away, lovely fresh morning for it, 8k at 5'43 pace (AHR 130/ Max 188). Run 2 was a group run, super easy 5k in Herbert Park.

    Tuesday - First threshold session of the week, 4* 7'30 off 60 secs. Thoroughly enjoyed this and the first rep came in at 4'26 pace, last rep 4'16. Wore my Adidas pro 4 as wanted to give them a proper spin before the Charleville half. Just over 11k around the concert field in Marlay.

    Wednesday - Another early start, and the note on my strava was that I loved every step, 9.6k at 5'43 pace (AHR 128/188).

    Thursday - Second threshold session of the week and I reduced it from my usual 30 minutes down to 24 minutes, broken down into 12* 2 minute reps off 60 secs, average came in at 4'01k pace. Again felt great and let the HR dictate the pace. 12k total for the run.

    Friday - Full day on campus and history tells me I need to do this run early as I do be wrecked by the end of the day, 8.7k easy at 5'48k pace (AHR 126/188).

    Saturday - Plan was to head to Cashel in Tipperary and do a little bit of family history with my daughters. We had a super fun day. I ran 6.5k easy before we left, 5'40 pace (HR130/188). Quite tired for this but glad to get out.

    PXL_20250913_184014998.MP.jpg

    Expectations for Charleville half - Not expecting a PB, just a strong performance that trends in the right direction. I have no idea what that means timewise, I'll let the heart rate dictate for the most part.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 846 ✭✭✭Infoseeker1975


    Hope the run in Charleville went well for you, tough conditions though better than what was forecasted. I was ok for 14km & started to struggle, with my 1st marathon in Dublin to come I eased off or gave up:)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭Wottle


    I wouldn't be too hard on yourself, they were very challenging conditions, and you may not realise it yet, but you would have learnt a fair bit about yourself and effort etc. Good job plugging on.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭Wottle


    Charleville Half Marathon

    We left Cashel at 8am and rolled into Charleville bang on 9am. The welcome? Fierce wind and driving rain. I’ll be honest, I wasn’t exactly excited for the challenge.

    All week I’d been experimenting with an app called MeteoPace, which predicts likely finish times based on weather and course conditions. I inputted 1:34 as goal finish time, and it suggested 1:37. Seemed realistic given the forecast.

    After a one mile warm up the rain cleared, the wind stayed stubborn. The plan was to race by heart rate, with HR lap splits written on my bib.

    The course opened with a fast downhill first mile - 6:55 (4:18k pace), but the HR was where it should be, so no panic. The next three miles were also my quickest of the day (4:32k pace), more thanks to the profile than overcooking. I was passed by a fair few at this stage, but I figured I'd see some of them again.

    Miles 8 and 9 offered rare shelter from the wind (4:37k pace), and my HR had a chance to settle. Mile 10 was my low point, legs like lead and breathing a little off, and my slowest split of the day (7:39 / 4:45k). Thankfully it didn’t last long and I started reeling people back in, massive mental boost.

    The final mile is cruel, uphill with the wind straight in my face. I had no timer showing on my watch, but sensed I was close to my target. A shout out from my daughters with 400m to go was the spark to empty the tank, crossed the finish line and found a dry spot to lie down, spent 10 minutes gathering myself.

    Finish time: 1:36:59

    Three minutes quicker than Berlin back in April, and in conditions far worse. I feel like I nailed the pacing by effort strategy here, and possibly continuing the theme of maturity.

    Huge thanks to ecoli for the training collaboration. With Rathfarnham 5K as the A goal, Charleville was the perfect secondary test, and I'm very happy with the performance.

    Massive thank you to the organisers, a cracking day out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 10,865 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    That app you mentioned makes me feel a bit better about my own result. Congrats on your disciplined effort!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭Wottle


    Week starting September 8th

    Monday - Tired body but not as bad as previous outings, 10k super easy around town.

    Tuesday - Out early for 15k easy, pace 5'48 (AHR 131/188). Incredible running conditions.

    7b7c30960d04b0846e4c3284a6e9b195_43026.316666666666_1758012047177.jpg

    Wednesday - Due to last week's race and a sub 20 5k attempt this coming Saturday, I decided one sub threshold session would be enough for the week but that I'd do 36 minutes instead of the usual 30 minutes. 4*9 minutes at 4'25-4'30ish pace. Legs were not feeling up to it and after 2 reps (4'26 &4'25) I could see the HR was a couple of beats over, so changed the last 2 reps to 6 minutes (4'22s). Solid session overall.

    Thursday - Up early for 12k easy, pace 5'51k (AHR 129/188). Very enjoyable but tired, should have picked more of a flat route.

    Friday - Another easy run and I was praying the body would feel a little fresher, and it did, tomorrow's blast was a go! 10k easy at 5'45k pace (AHR 132/188).

    Saturday - Up to Dodder Valley Parkrun (DV) with a couple of friends. My goal was sub 20 and I was prepared to be aggressive but smart, and to give it everything. Marlay is our usual hunting ground but DV's course profile is more favourable if there's no wind.

    A good solid warm up which included 4 minutes at threshold and some strides. Got myself right up the front and ran a 3'51 first k. The winner was long gone but there was a group of 3 forming in front of me, I really wanted to join them but they were going just a tad too quick and I think I would have blown up. They went on to run 19'22/31/40, so good decision in the end.

    The rest of the run was a lonesome affair but I felt strong, next two k in 4'00 and 3'54. The first 3k is definitely the fast section. Kilometers 4 & 5 have a slight uphill and it's about hanging on to your gains and avoiding big leaks, km4 - 4'05.

    17 minutes in and I check my watch, I appear to be slowing slightly and at 17 minutes I can be heard saying "Oh Fcuk" (I wore a new camera for the run) that was enough to get me going again and with a last spurt, the watch beeped 4'01.

    19'51 finish time and a lot of retching, took me about 5 minutes to get my breathing back under control. I'm absolutely chuffed, it's been 17 months since my last sub 20, this has been long overdue.

    Sunday - Group long run, great morning for it and legs felt great. 16k with a pace of 5'57 (AHR124/188).

    Just shy of 86k for the week.



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